Mark49

i have been in the USA for four months i have entered the USA on a HIB visa my wife and 2 children are on H4 visa this is where the nightmare begins?

i am resident in Greensboro North Carolina working for a UK firm who have an office (LLC) based in California i was sponsored by the firm to work on site in their customers design area (VOLVO).

no problem for me to get a SSN as i have the H1B so i have registered for my North Carolina ID document at the DMV (Dept Motor Vehicles) i will follow with my driving licence in due course i required an id document to get motor insurance for a new car i have purchased!

this is when it became apparent that all is not well with the USA immigration natralisation process

1 my wife is unable to drive as the insurance company require a copy of her North Carolina /ID/Drivers licence card she cannot get this card from the DMV with out a SSN number

2 she is unable to to apply for a SNN as she has a H4 visa and we were refused on the basis of non worker status.

3 we were informed that we should apply for a ITNI tax number from the IRS who informed me that this number could only be applied for at the end of the tax year using the W7 form attached to my tax declaration? this number would not be issued until Mid April 2005? for my family

4 it states very clearly on the IRS website that this number should not be used for identification purpose's and has been abused in recent years also cannot be used for the application to get a driving licence?



so bottom line is

1my wife is unable to drive in the state of North Carolina legally unless i hire her a car at approx $1200/month

2 i have been declined Medical insurance by Bluecross Blue Shield on the basis that my wife and children havs no SSN or ITNI numbers ?

3 the schools in Guilford county NC have requested i furnish my kids SSN numbers?

i feel as is normal in the international scene the innocent people suffer the most? i will no doubt return to the UK and put this down to experience that the investment i made in the USA dream was not worth it and sadly i feel that the faceless people who think up such a this system really need to be brought to account!!!!

regards

PS i am not asking for any advice or help i have already reached the end of the road????

Manc

I am sure there are others in your situation Mark.
I am 99.9% confident your misses and kids can get SSN with the "Not work authrised" endorsement (or something like it) emblazoned on the card.

Mark49

thanks for your boost

however i have been informed offically by the SSA in the past 2 days and personally when i went to the Greensboro SSA office that my wife and children will not be issued a SSN number under their present visa status H4

so i am looking for cheap flights on my browser as we speak?

regards

rincewind

You may want to try this site for the SSN info:

http://www.ssa.gov/ssnvisa/

It has a few steps and the link I gave here is straight to the immigrants page.

Manc

jesus.
there has to be a way mate, this is absurd.

All you need in Michigan is proof of residency. The actual H4 visa itself would be pretty much enough.

Englishmum

Oooh, you poor thing, I can sense your frustration.

I'm sure you already know that each State seems to operate as if it is an individual country with it's own laws and regulations. It is particularly bothersome when the State govt. employees don't even always know their own department's regulations... I have a suggestion which may help your wife in obtaining her State licence:

I live in New Jersey, but for spouses without work authorisation and therefore without a Social Security number (and in our case, a teenage son on an L2 dependent visa whom has just reached the driving age) this is what we had to do a couple of weeks ago to get a permit for my son:

We had to go in person with his passport and I-94 to a Social Security office (any SS office will do) to get a letter stating that he was ineligible for an SSN. The letter was issued on the spot. This letter is then taken to the DMV with the other documents they wanted and they accept this official SS letter when issuing a driving licence or permit. The wording of the letter begins with the statement:

Dear Mr.......

'We cannot give you a Social Security card because:

You have asked for a Social Security card that you can use for work. However, your records show that you are an alien not allowed to work in the US."

(then there are a couple of paragraphs about how to appeal if you disagree).

This form has a couple of identifying numbers;

One is: SSA-L676

and SS5


Now this is the letter which the New Jersey DMV will accept in lieu of a Social Security number. I even had to do this four years ago when I arrived in the US and had no EAD. Residents on non-immigrant visas in NJ have to go to a Regional DMV instead of the local neighbourhood DMV office as their staff are trained to check the I-94s and current immigration legal status. Don't forget that some of the Sept 11th hijackers were on fake NJ driving licenses so they've really toughened up here. However, you may wish to check if the letter SSA-L676 would be accepted by your State DMV...I think you will need to speak with someone in authority and not a regular clerk who probably rarely deals with newcomers to the US.

Hope this helps.

PS. Our health insurance company just uses my husband's SS number for all of us in our family. We used to be with United Healthcare but last Jan 1st the company changed it to Aetna.

rincewind

Contact BCIS before you make any drastic moves. Sometimes the people in the SSN offices are not aware of how all the system works.

rincewind

According to some sites I just looked at, Manc is right, you can get an SSN but it will state that it is not authorized for work.

Is there anyway you can change the visa to a H1B Visa?

According to one site "You can get a Driver's license, open a Bank account, or even go to college. Children on H4 visas do not need a separate visa to attend school."

Just tell the school the situation and that the children do not have a SSN.

Englishmum

That link does not apply to the original poster. He is on a non-immigrant H1 visa....that info applies to those on immigrant visas...probably aimed at those who've won a Greencard in the diversity lottery or those getting married to American citizens.

The SSA used to give out SSNs to those on dependent visas and annotated that it didn't confer work authorisation but I understand that this ceased a few years ago (and I've been here for four years and couldn't get one when I arrived on an L2 dependent visa).

Big Vern

Yep, the same thing happened to us earlier this year when we arrived in NC.

I got so fed up I went through the DMV heirarchy until I spoke to the Chief Examiner of NC. He was unaware that there was a loophole in the law so that H4 holders couldn't get a licence without a SSN, and couldn't get an ITIN until the first time they submitted a tax return.

His opinion was that as there was an obvious hole in the legislation, the 30 day period to get a state licence would not apply, and that my wife could use her UK licence indefinitely.

Luckily we never had to test this theory as we moved to WA after a few weeks - where a licence is available by proving ID and address - but it might be worth rechasing the point.

I wrote a full account of my dealings with the DMV in another thread, but I haven't got time to find it now. Have a search , I can't remember if I gave the guy's name or not, but if I did call him up and give him hell.....

Mark49

WELL I AM MUCH MORE CHEERFUL NOW!!!!

people actually care thanks for the help ladies and gentlemen

i have gone down quite a number of the directions posted on the forum and i really believe post 911 fallout is about to bite many H1B visa holders and i think it is only going to get worse??

i have one route out i have already taken some legal advice that i should sue my employer for lack of expert advice on the immigration process? my total investiment here in the USA HAS BEEN $45,000 so to set up and i havent even started properly yet?

so you can imagine how i feel?

anyone know a good solicitor?

regards

Markb

Englishmum

I've taken a look at the NC DMV site and it says:

http://www.onlinedmv.com/NC_North%20...r_vehicles.htm

OK - so it says that if you don't have an SSN an ITIN from the Internal Revenue Service will be taken in lieu of it.

A couple of weeks after arriving in the USA (Summer 2000) and husband had certainly not filed any IRS forms - I went in person with my children and our passports to a walk-in IRS office...downloaded the application form from the website link below. The people at the IRS office were very congenial, although they were quite mature which probably explains their kind manner!

It took less than a week to arrive in the post, and I took the ITIN number and the SSA-L676 (aka SS5) letter from the Social Security office with my passport and I-94 to the DMV when I applied for my driving licence. Don't bother mailing off to Philadelphia for the ITIN, it's much quicker to go in person and the IRS walk-in offices are listed on the irs.gov website.

See the procedure here:

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/artic...,00.html#apply

indybrit

Been down this same road ourselves and yes, it is very frustrating.
If there's a difficult way of administering something, the US authorities will find it without even trying, they've made an art out of turning the siplest things into a near science.

I have H1B but the wife and son have H4. The wife went to our local SS office in Indiana months ago and was denied a SS number. The reason given was that the SS department ceased giving H4 visa holders SS numbers at least 2 years ago.

I applied for ITIN's for the wife and son at the same time that I filed my taxes. In this instance your forms have to be sent to Bensalem, PA. They still managed to f**k things up but I did get them in the end.

As for the drivers license thing, it does vary from state to state. Here in Indiana the BMV have the person that was denied a SS number fill out an affidavit stating that they are legally residing in the US but are not eligible for a SS number.

Mark49

Thanks Englishmum

i have been down the road of the ITIN application and if you read the following extract from the IRS website you will realise why i have hit a brick wall i will not be able to apply for the ITIN number this side of christmas and my wife will not be able to drive for 5 months in the USA??????????????????????????????? that will kill her? +even when she gets the number the state of NC will not accept the ITIN number see below?

IRS Announces Revisions to ITIN Applications

IR-2003-140, Dec. 17, 2003

WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service today announced several steps to strengthen controls over the issuance of Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers. The changes will help ensure that ITINs are issued for their intended tax administration purpose for administering the tax code and not for other reasons, such as providing personal identification. In addition, the IRS is taking steps to help ensure that applicants can continue to obtain ITINs without undue burden.

Beginning today, new ITIN applicants must use a revised Form W-7, Individual Taxpayer Identification Number Application. ITIN applicants also must provide proof that the ITIN will be used for tax administration purposes. For applicants seeking an ITIN in order to file a tax return, the return must be filed along with the W-7.

“About one-quarter of the ITINs issued for tax return purposes never actually find their way onto a tax return,� said IRS Commissioner Mark W. Everson. “The steps taken today ensure ITINs will be issued only to those seeking to comply with their tax obligations.�

Federal law requires individuals with U.S. income, regardless of immigration status, to pay U.S. taxes. The ITIN, a nine-digit number that begins with the number 9, was created for use on tax returns for those taxpayers who do not qualify for a Social Security Number. The IRS has issued 7 million ITINs since 1996.

However, some ITINs issued by the IRS do not appear in tax filings or tax reporting documents and may have been procured solely to serve as a form of identification. Earlier this year, the IRS issued letters to all governors and state motor vehicle departments advising that ITINs were not designed to serve as personal identification and would not be suitable for determining identification of applicants for driver’s licenses.

After a review of the ITIN program, the IRS will implement these changes effective immediately:

All new ITIN applicants will have to show a federal tax purpose for seeking the ITIN. For those seeking an ITIN to meet their income tax filing obligations, this will require attaching a federal tax return to the Form W-7 when they are ready to file their tax return with the IRS.
ITIN applications without proof of need for tax administration purposes will be rejected.
The IRS will reduce to 13 from 40 the number of documents it will accept as proof of identity to obtain an ITIN. The 13 acceptable documents are listed in the new Form W-7 instructions.
The IRS also will change the appearance of the ITIN from a card to an authorization letter to avoid any possible similarities with a Social Security Number card.
A small number of non-U.S. residents apply for an ITIN to report income under a tax treaty, and a small number of U.S. resident and non-resident applicants apply for an ITIN to report income from a U.S. bank or brokerage account. Neither type of applicant will be required to file a tax return along with their ITIN application. Non-resident applicants will be required to furnish evidence of their ownership of the asset that gave rise to the reporting obligation. Resident applicants will be required to furnish evidence of actual rather than intended ownership of the bank or brokerage account.

The IRS will continue to help individuals who seek ITINs comply with the tax laws. The IRS has found no indication of any differences in accuracy rates between tax returns filed with ITINs and tax returns filed with SSNs. The agency understands the need to continue to monitor challenges posed by ITINs, and will do so over the course of time.

The IRS will continue to review ways to improve Form W-7 and will conduct a public comment period until June 15, 2004. The IRS will be publishing an announcement in the Internal Revenue Bulletin that will ask for comments on the revised form and the application process. Internal Revenue Bulletin 2004-2, to be published on Jan. 12, 2004, will give instructions on when and how comments may be submitted.

Additional information is available at IRS.gov where English and Spanish versions of the Form W-7 are available. A list of frequently asked questions (FAQs) also is available

Big D

Thought we were going to have same problem with licence here in Texas but you can sign an affidavit at the DMV that not entitled to SSN. Now if you can take test in state like this you can just swop from state to state. Problem might be proving residence in another state!!