Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
Nov 27th 2013, 1:30 pm
#181
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,544
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
It is quite interesting how English is spoken differently in different parts of the world. I grew up in Aus, and our language is a strong hybrid of American and English. We use many of the words that Americans use, but pronounce and spelling is a bit of both.
What is interesting though, is if you go back to my Grandparents era (so post WW1 and Pre WW2),they are very English in how they speak, use words etc... and comes from the Heavy UK influence that had dominated the country up to that point in time. If you then go the baby boomers of post WW2, it is very heavily influenced by America as a result of the US influence that dominated the country post WW2
Having now spent 9 years in the UK, and (as my friends in the UK put it) "learning to speak properly", it is going to be interesting how we adopt in the US to words. Having finally stopped saying Soccer and having football roll off the tongue, saying data rather than darta etc...
I have also found in the past when visiting the US, a lot of them have difficulty with the speed of which I talk and the twang... the twang i dont get, as they are rather twangy themselves!
What is interesting though, is if you go back to my Grandparents era (so post WW1 and Pre WW2),they are very English in how they speak, use words etc... and comes from the Heavy UK influence that had dominated the country up to that point in time. If you then go the baby boomers of post WW2, it is very heavily influenced by America as a result of the US influence that dominated the country post WW2
Having now spent 9 years in the UK, and (as my friends in the UK put it) "learning to speak properly", it is going to be interesting how we adopt in the US to words. Having finally stopped saying Soccer and having football roll off the tongue, saying data rather than darta etc...
I have also found in the past when visiting the US, a lot of them have difficulty with the speed of which I talk and the twang... the twang i dont get, as they are rather twangy themselves!
Nov 27th 2013, 6:32 pm
#182
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Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,838
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
I assume that the Spanish was a class for native speakers, A native speaker still needs help with use of the language just as native English speakers continue to study English. It would be a pity if the head start in knowledge of Spanish was lost. Continuing to study will make it in to a genuinely marketable skill. Where I work the level 4 classes are for native speakers.
Last edited by kimilseung; Nov 27th 2013 at 6:34 pm.
Nov 27th 2013, 6:47 pm
#183
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,049
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
No, the Spanish was the required second language for all students, the large majority of them being native English speakers. No consideration given to whether or not a student already spoke two languages and English was the second one, or that Spanish might already be the first one.
Bureaucracy at work. As Freddy Prinze said, "This is America - speak Spanish."
Regards, JEff
Bureaucracy at work. As Freddy Prinze said, "This is America - speak Spanish."
Regards, JEff
Nov 27th 2013, 6:59 pm
#184
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Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,838
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
No, the Spanish was the required second language for all students, the large majority of them being native English speakers. No consideration given to whether or not a student already spoke two languages and English was the second one, or that Spanish might already be the first one.
Bureaucracy at work. As Freddy Prinze said, "This is America - speak Spanish."
Regards, JEff
Bureaucracy at work. As Freddy Prinze said, "This is America - speak Spanish."
Regards, JEff
Nov 27th 2013, 9:12 pm
#185
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 211
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
No, the Spanish was the required second language for all students, the large majority of them being native English speakers. No consideration given to whether or not a student already spoke two languages and English was the second one, or that Spanish might already be the first one.
Bureaucracy at work. As Freddy Prinze said, "This is America - speak Spanish."
Regards, JEff
Bureaucracy at work. As Freddy Prinze said, "This is America - speak Spanish."
Regards, JEff
Nov 27th 2013, 9:35 pm
#186
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
Not in the US it isn't. Spanish is now the default first language foreign taught in most US schools, in the same way that French is the dominant first foreign language taught in British schools. Many children in the US may never be taught any foreign language other than Spanish.
Last edited by Pulaski; Nov 27th 2013 at 10:01 pm.
Nov 27th 2013, 9:38 pm
#187
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,049
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
In that school district, at that grade level (if I recall correctly it was 5th), yes.
When I went to school, foreign language started in the 7th grade and we had a choice of French, German, Spanish, or Latin. There wasn't much of a hispanic presence in the northeast then, although a lot of Puerto Ricans in NYC. But Latin was a dead language already so I don't know why it was offered.
Regards, JEff
When I went to school, foreign language started in the 7th grade and we had a choice of French, German, Spanish, or Latin. There wasn't much of a hispanic presence in the northeast then, although a lot of Puerto Ricans in NYC. But Latin was a dead language already so I don't know why it was offered.
Regards, JEff
Nov 29th 2013, 5:00 pm
#188
Grumpy Know-it-all
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
Mmm, anyway, having had dinner with a couple of English people the other evening, I was basically subjected to them correcting nearly everything I said because of my pronunciation, which for future reference is the easiest way to get on someone's nerves.
Canada uses the OED, so this argument they had that it was all Noah Webster's fault doesn't work with Canadians.
Also I'm beginning to see flaws in this British argument, for example "sandwich" which I'm sure originally was pronounced: "san-ditch" but British people "Americanized" that, perhaps it was an early example.
Also, "schedule", why is the British method the correct one, they don't pronounce "school" that way. Another one was "advertisement", I think the British method is probably the better one but I'm afraid I pronounce it the American/Canadian way.
Basically at one point it was the same language and it diverged, not just because of Noah Webster and neither method is the "correct" one.
Canada uses the OED, so this argument they had that it was all Noah Webster's fault doesn't work with Canadians.
Also I'm beginning to see flaws in this British argument, for example "sandwich" which I'm sure originally was pronounced: "san-ditch" but British people "Americanized" that, perhaps it was an early example.
Also, "schedule", why is the British method the correct one, they don't pronounce "school" that way. Another one was "advertisement", I think the British method is probably the better one but I'm afraid I pronounce it the American/Canadian way.
Basically at one point it was the same language and it diverged, not just because of Noah Webster and neither method is the "correct" one.
Nov 29th 2013, 5:04 pm
#189
Grumpy Know-it-all
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
I think it's more accurate to say this stupid fetish of teaching people that English is a phonetic language reached it's zenith in the US and then after all the Americans had been brainwashed it started to spread internationally.
Either that or it was some regional thing that started in the US and spread from there.
Nov 29th 2013, 8:35 pm
#190
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 121
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
I cannot remember the exact quote, but an American friend of mine once said that correctness is not necessarily defined by the original inventor, but by those who have perfected it, as once something is perfected it is usually the way something is done. As a result, there are a lot more people in America speaking English than there are in England, so American English must be the correct way.
At the time I said he was an idiot, but I learnt to Speak in Aus, and well... its possibly the worst out of all of them!
so who am I to judge!
At the time I said he was an idiot, but I learnt to Speak in Aus, and well... its possibly the worst out of all of them!
so who am I to judge!
Nov 29th 2013, 9:38 pm
#191
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,544
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
I cannot remember the exact quote, but an American friend of mine once said that correctness is not necessarily defined by the original inventor, but by those who have perfected it, as once something is perfected it is usually the way something is done. As a result, there are a lot more people in America speaking English than there are in England, so American English must be the correct way.
At the time I said he was an idiot, but I learnt to Speak in Aus, and well... its possibly the worst out of all of them! so who am I to judge!
At the time I said he was an idiot, but I learnt to Speak in Aus, and well... its possibly the worst out of all of them!
so who am I to judge!
Nov 29th 2013, 10:51 pm
#192
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Joined: Feb 2013
Location: State College Pa.
Posts: 1,585
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
. And Americans still say automobile, while the British have more or less left that antiquated word behind.
Nov 29th 2013, 11:07 pm
#193
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,544
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
Exactly! I think that process, British usage changing American usage, seems to be more potent in this age of the Internet, YouTube, etc.
Nov 30th 2013, 12:51 am
#194
He/him
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,838
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
Mmm, anyway, having had dinner with a couple of English people the other evening, I was basically subjected to them correcting nearly everything I said because of my pronunciation, which for future reference is the easiest way to get on someone's nerves.
Canada uses the OED, so this argument they had that it was all Noah Webster's fault doesn't work with Canadians.
Also I'm beginning to see flaws in this British argument, for example "sandwich" which I'm sure originally was pronounced: "san-ditch" but British people "Americanized" that, perhaps it was an early example.
Also, "schedule", why is the British method the correct one, they don't pronounce "school" that way. Another one was "advertisement", I think the British method is probably the better one but I'm afraid I pronounce it the American/Canadian way.
Basically at one point it was the same language and it diverged, not just because of Noah Webster and neither method is the "correct" one.
Canada uses the OED, so this argument they had that it was all Noah Webster's fault doesn't work with Canadians.
Also I'm beginning to see flaws in this British argument, for example "sandwich" which I'm sure originally was pronounced: "san-ditch" but British people "Americanized" that, perhaps it was an early example.
Also, "schedule", why is the British method the correct one, they don't pronounce "school" that way. Another one was "advertisement", I think the British method is probably the better one but I'm afraid I pronounce it the American/Canadian way.
Basically at one point it was the same language and it diverged, not just because of Noah Webster and neither method is the "correct" one.
Nov 30th 2013, 12:57 am
#195
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Slowly starting to Americanize my speech
Obviously the impact of mass media has grown steadily ever since with the rise of television and popular music in the 60's and cable television in the 80's and then the internet in the late 90's and into the 21st century, and everything I see suggests progressive convergence of the two largest divisions of English language usage.