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scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

Old Sep 12th 2002, 8:17 pm
  #1  
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Default scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

Here is the text of Matt Udall's post:
--------------------------------- Quote ----------------
MU
Alvena's Site and Blood Money
Wed Sep 11 19:42:47 2002
205.188.209.141

I believe Alvena still is the webmaster for this site (according to recent postings in the other news group), although she does not seem to update it anymore and a lot of the information seems to be getting out of date (meaning perhaps dangerous to the immigration community). So why does she keep the site up? My guess is the money she makes due to the advertising that goes on here (but that's just my guess).

Perhaps I'm just a little sensitive about this today in light of the fact its the 1 year anniversary of the terror attacks and the media coverage I've watched today, however this very site contains information and "tips" on how non-Americans located outside the U.S. can fool immigration officers at the point of entry as to their true intentions upon entry (thus committing an illegal act at the point of entry).

On September 12th of last year, I wrote Alvena a rather stern e-mail voicing my strong opinion and displeasure that her actions (pages and personal advise she used to give over and over again in public forums) were being read by "all sorts" of people across the world (the innocent as well as the guilty) and that I personally thought her actions made it harder for INS officers at the point of entry to do their jobs in keeping out those who should not have been let in due to their intent. The heading on her old "Tourist Adjustment" page used to read something to the effect of, "Here is a list of recommendations on how to immigrate to the U.S. with a tourist visa" (I'm paraphrasing here as I don't have her file in front of me where I keep a copy of her pre-9/11 page). Again, her "recommendations" were accessable by anybody on the planet with a computer, who may have been an innocent fiancee who wanted to bypass the proper visa or a terrorist who may have used her "tips" to help him or her enter the United States.

I do believe she was not purposefully trying to help the "bad guys" with information on how to fool INS officers at the point of entry, but her intended target audiance is irrelevant and she was definately putting out information to help those she "thought" she was helping on how to fool INS officers at entry as to their true intentions. She had no way to limit her publicly dispensed legal advice (or should I say "illegal" advice) to love sick fiancee's.

In my letter to her on 09/12/01, I mentioned that I hoped she was happy now and that her continued advice along these lines, in my opinion, was appalling. She replied back saying her site did no such thing, but then a few hours later she changed the heading on her page to say, "there are NOT recommendations....", although the heading is the only thing that has changed... the tips are still there for the world to read.

I'm only guessing here, but since the Kentucky Bar looked at the scope of her activity and decided it amounted to the unlicensed practice of immigration law, and in light of what happened on 09/11/01 and what her pages (and in person advice) did in instructing people how to thwart the INS officer at the POE, I'm not surprised she's keeping a low profile.

Personally I think she should be ashamed of herself, and I hope she chokes on her blood money (Like I said, perhaps I'm just a little more sensitive to this issue in light of the media coverage I've been watching today, and I don't expect my opinion will be popular with Alvena's followers/clients).

M.U. ]





Hell sure they aren't popular with alvena's followers. Or for that matter with anyone sensible enough to realise that u urself r just yet another greedy attorney desparate to deny people access to Alvena's excellent free advice so that u get to fleece them as ur paying clients.

Alvena's site is the most comprehensive source of info on immigration to USA via marriage. The info is superbly well presented.

Thousands of people have saved tons of money by getting all the info they need through her website thereby avoiding the need to hire immigration lawyers. No wonder udall cannot bear it . After all , udall is only interested in fleecing clients through outrageous attorney fees. udall uses this forum only for cheap publicity, subtle spamming as obvious from his other posts.

As for the crap udall uttered about terrorists using Alvena's advice on getting into the States ask urself this : should air travel be permanently stopped just so that other skyscrapers remain safe? Common sense says no.Likewise should thousands of innocent people be denied access to Alvena's website just so that no potential terrorist misuses the info?

The truth is apparent: greedy attorneys will do anything to harm genuinely helpful people like Alvena simply to increase thier own billings.

The best way to deal with such shitholes is to not even acknowledge they exist for if left alone shit gradually rots away and then disappears up its own ass. Lick that.



P.S. : If any of u readers are of the view that udall is justified in criticising Alvena, maybe u could share ur views here with all of us. Your views are certainly welcome.
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Old Sep 12th 2002, 9:48 pm
  #2  
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Default Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

"peter d'souza" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > P.S. : If any of u readers are of the view that udall is justified in criticising
    > Alvena, maybe u could share ur views here with all of us. Your views are
    > certainly welcome.

My view is this

"reproduction, distribution, republication or retransmission of material contained
within this web site is prohibited unless you obtain prior written permission from
Charles H. Steen, P.C."

This is from the main site that you quoted from.

I assume you received written permission from Mr. Steen and I also assume you
received written permission from Mr. Udall.

I find your comments far more offensive.

Grinch
 
Old Sep 12th 2002, 10:12 pm
  #3  
Mrtravel
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Default Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

peter d'souza wrote:
    > Here
    > P.S. : If any of u readers are of the view that udall is justified in criticising
    > Alvena, maybe u could share ur views here with all of us. Your views are
    > certainly welcome.

Why would they be welcome.. You obviously didn't welcome Matt's, why would you
welcome people that might have an agreeable view. Not that I agree, but I think the
point about encourage illegal behavior is a logical.

Michael Voight CSE
 
Old Sep 12th 2002, 10:19 pm
  #4  
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Default Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

In article <[email protected]>, peter d'souza
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > P.S. : If any of u readers are of the view that udall is justified in criticising
    > Alvena, maybe u could share ur views here with all of us. Your views are
    > certainly welcome.

Well, here's what I know--

First, I looked, and there are disclaimers all over the k1.exit.com site about the
need to verify information, may not be correct, etc. How much of a right do people
have to gripe about free information when they have been warned repeatedly about it's
validity? I looked and there were warnings at the beginning of every section, in
addition to the front page. Only an idiot would not see them.

I called Alvena this morning, and here's what she said about the "blood money" issue:
turns out she makes nothing off the site. The books have brough in under $13 this
entire year, and Amazon does not pay a check until you have made $25. Also she told
me that the banners on the messageboard are put there by the messageboard provider,
and she gets nothing from them, it all goes to the messageboard people. She does not
even have a choice in which banners they put there. So she did not make a red cent
out of the site. Some "blood money"! She did say that it's rather entertaining,
however, to see people gettin' their britches in a creeper about something so
trivial, when we have real problems in our world that need our attention so
desperately.

She also commented that while Matt said stuff about her run-in with the Ky Bar, there
is no law that says a person has to have representation by an immigration attorney in
immigration matters, and in fact she read that they can even go to immigration court
with only a lay person or organization representing them if they want. Said she read
that right on the INS website, but I don't know where.

She also said that she has been having some health problems, and quite a while back
she e-mailed Doc Steen, asking him to let her give the site to someone else who could
maintain it, because she didn't like to see it gettin' in this bad shape. Today,
after hearing nothing from him in all this time, she called Doc Steen personally to
ask him again to let her take the site down or find someone else to run it---but he
insisted that she leave it up, and told her to rest for a while and see if she can
get back on her feet. She did not want to do that, but said since he is the legal
owner of the site, he has the final sayso on it.

The last thing she told me was that she was very disappointed in Matt. Said she had
referred several people his way during the last few months, people that had asked
privately for a reference on a good attorney for fiance/spouse visas. She did this
even after he made harsh remarks in private e-mails to her, too. And he thanked her
for these kind referrals by posting information from what she thought was a private
communication, and then making ugly statements about it. She thought that was pretty
disheartening, it obviously cut her to the bone. She's really not feeling good at
all, and I could see that this was just about her limit. I'll be surprised if she
continues to work on the site ever again, unless she gets to feeling a whole lot
better physically and mentally than she is right now.

I'll let you know if I talk to her again.
--
Ms. Liberty
 
Old Sep 12th 2002, 11:14 pm
  #5  
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Default Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

Originally posted by peter d'souza:
P.S. : If any of u readers are of the view that udall is justified in criticising Alvena, maybe u could share ur views here with all of us. Your views are certainly welcome.
Three questions:

1) Why did you start this thread, when there is already another thread dedicated to this same topic?

2) If this "bitchfest" by "scumbag" Matt Udall is going on at some other message board, totally unrelated to this one, why should anyone post their opinions about it HERE??

3) Like MrTravel said, if Matt's opinion isn't welcome, why would the opinions of those who agree with him -- even partially -- be welcome, either?

Talk about a waste of bandwidth...

~ Jenney
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Old Sep 13th 2002, 12:06 am
  #6  
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Default Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

"Ms. Liberty" wrote:

    > First, I looked, and there are disclaimers all over the k1.exit.com site about the
    > need to verify information, may not be correct, etc. How much of a right do people
    > have to gripe about free information when they have been warned repeatedly about
    > it's validity?

If the site owner knows the information to be wrong, what is the point in having it
on a web site? The point isn't that some of the information is wrong and people
should check another source, the point is the website owner knows it is wrong and
still makes it visible.
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 4:45 am
  #7  
Karen
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Default Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

I totally agree with Matt Udall that we shoudn't be having someone running a website
telling people how to get into the US illegally. Alvena, as far as I'm concerned is a
person who is not a lawyer and who is on a power trip. I've asked for help about me
and my husband's situation and she has made rude comments without even knowing our
full story. I say to her that she should stay out of the advising business unless
she can give unbiased and helpful advice. ALVENA, if you don't know a person's full
story, please don't comment like you know everything.
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 12:55 pm
  #8  
Paul
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Default Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

peter d'souza <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hell sure they aren't popular with alvena's followers. Or for that matter with
    > anyone sensible enough to realise that u urself r just yet another greedy attorney
    > desparate to deny people access to Alvena's excellent free advice so that u get to
    > fleece them as ur paying clients.

A few months ago, a friend of mine told me he was moving back to the States after
living in Germany for 15 years. He has a German wife. I learned that he had give no
consideration to the fact that she would need some type of status from the INS to
settle here since she had previously visited without a visa.

I told him that I wasn't sure what all his options were, but that I knew from this
group that there was an immigration attorney named Matt Udall who did phone
conversations relatively cheaply. So he called Matt, had a detailed conversation in
which he got some concrete advice. When he brought up the cost, Matt told him his
case was so simple that he wouldn't charge anything.

Whatever you think of Mr. Udall's post to Alvena, you are totally out of line in
calling him "another greedy attorney."
 
Old Sep 13th 2002, 2:23 pm
  #9  
Andrew Defaria
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Default Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena

No good deed goes unpunished. I know from experience.
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 12:26 pm
  #10  
Strike
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Default The Chipping Away of America [was Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena]

Hi! I'm actor Troy McClure. You may remember me from such threads as
'scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena' and 'peter d'souza: tasty
but deadly.'

    >Here is the text of Matt Udall's post:

<snip>

I don't wish to get into the pros and cons of Udall vs. Alvena.
However, this argument is a perfect example of why, for the past year,
I have woken up every day feeling just a little bit more unsettled
about my life in this country.

Let me start by making something crystal clear: I'm a Brit who loves
America. More specifically, I love my American wife. I love living in
New York. So please, no posts about 'go back to where you came from,
you ungrateful foreigner.'

Before I came to live in the USA, my knowledge of the place was as
stereotyped as the Hollywood movies it was gleaned from. I arrived
here in early 2000, before the economic woes, before Sep 11. What an
amazing, wonderous place I found. The people were confident, rightly
proud of the country they'd built. It swept me off my feet. I knew
within days that I wanted to be here the rest of my life.

Shortly after meeting the woman who is now my wife, my company decided
to cut my assignment short and send me back to the UK. I was
heartbroken. I asked for a transfer to another division in the New
York office, any division, I didn't care. The thought of losing the
love of this woman, and my life in America, was like a hammer blow.

Long story short, after changing jobs and companies, things settled
down and I was back where I belonged, with my wife. In America.

Then, Sep 11. I'm not going to re-hash old ground there. I was in the
city, I had friends in the towers. No need to elaborate further.

Since that day, I have had to watch America become a little bit more
un-American every day. When I get into this conversation with my
American friends, it amazes me that it's the Colonial Monarchist Brit
Boy who finds himself defending the pure idea of America to the
Americans.

You hear the phrase 'America is Freedom' every day. You hear it so
often that I suspect it starts to lose its meaning. Just stop for a
second and think about what that means. Freedom means I can have any
religion I want. I can say what I want. I can pursue whatever vocation
I want. There's no other country on the planet founded on such an
amazing principle. Why, then, are Americans today so desperate to toss
that in the trash?

From the detainment of immigrants without due process because they
happen to be Middle Eastern, to the fear of being branded
'unpatriotic' because you dare to question the government, to the
reduction of US foreign policy into 'Your're Evil/You're Not Evil,' to
the massive expansion of internal security bordering on a police
state, to immigration lawyers on the internet with nothing better to
do but try and shut down helpful web sites... every day, a little bit
of America is dying.

Amazingly, nobody seems to care. I can't seem to get any of my
American friends to understand, let alone speak out about it.

Maybe I'm naive. But it seems to me that freedom is a wonderful thing.
And there is a price worth paying for it. But that price can never be
the reduction of freedom itself, not even by a little bit. Maybe
living in London for 20 years under the shadow of the IRA has made me
slightly less hysterical about terrorism than Americans, who've never
really had to deal with it before.

Last night I re-read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the
Declaration of Independence. A shame I don't fully enjoy their
protection, even as a legal alien. Because they're amazing documents.
When was the last time you actually sat down and read them? You should
do it at least once a year, in my opinion.

What astounds me was how far-sighted the Founding Fathers were. They
were smart. They foresaw a lot of the difficult issues we're facing
today. Particularly when it comes to 'entangling engagements' with
foreign powers.

So apologies for the off-topic rant, I just had to get that off my
chest. I hope that there's still an America worth living in by the
time my AOS comes through. In the meantime, I'll leave you with a
quote from a great man that should be heeded in these difficult times.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
security deserve neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin

Marco
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 3:08 pm
  #11  
Desirea Herrera
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Default Re: The Chipping Away of America [was Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena]

How Appropriate!

An American

"Strike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:34t8ou4bcrpihs19kpdjac1u-
[email protected]
...
    > Hi! I'm actor Troy McClure. You may remember me from such threads as
    > 'scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena' and 'peter d'souza: tasty
    > but deadly.'
    > >
    > >Here is the text of Matt Udall's post:
    > <snip>
    > I don't wish to get into the pros and cons of Udall vs. Alvena.
    > However, this argument is a perfect example of why, for the past year,
    > I have woken up every day feeling just a little bit more unsettled
    > about my life in this country.
    > Let me start by making something crystal clear: I'm a Brit who loves
    > America. More specifically, I love my American wife. I love living in
    > New York. So please, no posts about 'go back to where you came from,
    > you ungrateful foreigner.'
    > Before I came to live in the USA, my knowledge of the place was as
    > stereotyped as the Hollywood movies it was gleaned from. I arrived
    > here in early 2000, before the economic woes, before Sep 11. What an
    > amazing, wonderous place I found. The people were confident, rightly
    > proud of the country they'd built. It swept me off my feet. I knew
    > within days that I wanted to be here the rest of my life.
    > Shortly after meeting the woman who is now my wife, my company decided
    > to cut my assignment short and send me back to the UK. I was
    > heartbroken. I asked for a transfer to another division in the New
    > York office, any division, I didn't care. The thought of losing the
    > love of this woman, and my life in America, was like a hammer blow.
    > Long story short, after changing jobs and companies, things settled
    > down and I was back where I belonged, with my wife. In America.
    > Then, Sep 11. I'm not going to re-hash old ground there. I was in the
    > city, I had friends in the towers. No need to elaborate further.
    > Since that day, I have had to watch America become a little bit more
    > un-American every day. When I get into this conversation with my
    > American friends, it amazes me that it's the Colonial Monarchist Brit
    > Boy who finds himself defending the pure idea of America to the
    > Americans.
    > You hear the phrase 'America is Freedom' every day. You hear it so
    > often that I suspect it starts to lose its meaning. Just stop for a
    > second and think about what that means. Freedom means I can have any
    > religion I want. I can say what I want. I can pursue whatever vocation
    > I want. There's no other country on the planet founded on such an
    > amazing principle. Why, then, are Americans today so desperate to toss
    > that in the trash?
    > From the detainment of immigrants without due process because they
    > happen to be Middle Eastern, to the fear of being branded
    > 'unpatriotic' because you dare to question the government, to the
    > reduction of US foreign policy into 'Your're Evil/You're Not Evil,' to
    > the massive expansion of internal security bordering on a police
    > state, to immigration lawyers on the internet with nothing better to
    > do but try and shut down helpful web sites... every day, a little bit
    > of America is dying.
    > Amazingly, nobody seems to care. I can't seem to get any of my
    > American friends to understand, let alone speak out about it.
    > Maybe I'm naive. But it seems to me that freedom is a wonderful thing.
    > And there is a price worth paying for it. But that price can never be
    > the reduction of freedom itself, not even by a little bit. Maybe
    > living in London for 20 years under the shadow of the IRA has made me
    > slightly less hysterical about terrorism than Americans, who've never
    > really had to deal with it before.
    > Last night I re-read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the
    > Declaration of Independence. A shame I don't fully enjoy their
    > protection, even as a legal alien. Because they're amazing documents.
    > When was the last time you actually sat down and read them? You should
    > do it at least once a year, in my opinion.
    > What astounds me was how far-sighted the Founding Fathers were. They
    > were smart. They foresaw a lot of the difficult issues we're facing
    > today. Particularly when it comes to 'entangling engagements' with
    > foreign powers.
    > So apologies for the off-topic rant, I just had to get that off my
    > chest. I hope that there's still an America worth living in by the
    > time my AOS comes through. In the meantime, I'll leave you with a
    > quote from a great man that should be heeded in these difficult times.
    > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    > security deserve neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin
    > Marco
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 4:05 pm
  #12  
Girard Bourque
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Default Re: The Chipping Away of America [was Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena]

I lived in England for 5.5 years with the US military. I have been to
something like 17 countries. When I was in England, we were sent to
Germany, Italy, and other countries on a regular basis. I was in "theater"
when Libya was bombed, when the US shot down two of their planes. I was
around when the IRA set off bombs in London during parades. Been through
the terrorist threats and warning, bomb scares. One of the things that I
admired was the locals would pick-up their life's and continued on with
their lives. They did not give the terrorist the victory. That is the idea
behind what they do. They want to take away your lifestyle, they want to
make you paranoid. They spread terror.

Back 20 years ago, I knew it would only be a matter of time until the fight
was brought to American soil. Now that it is here, what do we do? Do we
crawl up into a ball and play dead? If we do they win. We need to adapt to
the present conditions. We need to improve our screening procedures. But
we do not need to bring the system to a halt, and that is what we have
pretty much done. It is like the INS is running scared. "If I don't make a
decision, then I can not be blamed for making the wrong choice." We as a
country need to get out of a crisis management situation, where we are
reacting, and start thinking and acting in logical steps. We are a country
of immigrants, that is our past and to an extent it is also our future.

Jerry
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 4:57 pm
  #13  
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Default Re: The Chipping Away of America [was Re: scumbag Matt Udall bitches away at Alvena]

[QUOTE

<snip>


I hope that there's still an America worth living in by the
time my AOS comes through. In the meantime, I'll leave you with a
quote from a great man that should be heeded in these difficult times.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
security deserve neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin

Marco
[/SIZE][/QUOTE]


Marco, would you consider reposting this in a new thread? I would hate to see your eloquent post get lost in this pissing match.

The other night (9/11), I got into a very heated discussion (argument) with a very close friend when she said the US should form "neighborhood terrorist watch groups". Unfortunately, that is becoming a frequent sentiment around the 911 anniversary. I see us sliding down the slippery path that will give the terrorists their win.

Should we return to the pre-911 era? No, we can't. But the response should be reasoned and measured - not knee jerks. Hopefully, the crisis mode will abate soon.

-Don H
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Old Sep 15th 2002, 8:09 pm
  #14  
Mdudall
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Default Re: The Chipping Away of America

Hi Marco,
I enjoyed your posting, and I thought I'd post a reply if that's OK.

I applaud your reading of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I wonder how
many American's have read those documents.

Constitutional law is a required class in law school and it takes a year to go
through. It requires massive amounts of reading case law to see how the courts
have interpreted or applied the Constitution to specific facts/cases over the
years. There are many concepts/tests (ways of reasoning) that the law student
learns during Con law that most "non-attorneys" never have to use in their
lives (for example, the strict scrutiny, intermediate scrutiny and rational
basis standards when it comes to various kinds of treatment shown to various
types of groups). Reading the cases provides a unique glimpse into American
history that you just don't get without doing all of that case law reading (you
are never going to get the same thing from watching the history channel or
other forms of media).

All in all, Con law is probably one of the most difficult classes for a law
student, and my "favorite" one. I loved every minute of it, and to this day, if
asked what my favorite class in law school was, my answer is always Con law.

I had a buddy in law school that was flunking out. He was in the class 1 year
behind me (we started out in the same class, but he was on the cut-off line of
failing either the first or second year [I can't remember now which one it
was], and the school gave him the opportunity to repeat that year so he did).
He had failed Con law the first time around, so I decided to help him.

I started tutoring him for around 8 hours a week (and he kicked me down a few
bucks for my time). Instead of rereading all of the cases with him, I focused
on teaching the "tests" and "concepts" that one needs to know when confronting
various types of fact patterns, pounding mnemonics into his head so he could
remember the convoluted and sometimes cumbersome rules/tests that one needs to
use when applying to certain fact patterns (and would need to be explained on
his essay exams).

He had moved to San Francisco from San Diego, and while in San Diego he owned a
couple of surf shops, so he was into surfing. I had always wanted to try it,
and one of my favorite memories of tutoring him was one afternoon as we floated
outside the breakers at Mustang beach, discussing the finer points of
"procedural" and "substantive" due process while waiting for some nice waves. I
recall a couple of the other "local" surfers floating out there with us
overheard our discussion, and I recall the look on their faces when they
realized who we were and what we were doing. They might have thought, "great,
now we have to deal with sharks on top of the water too" :-).

There is no way my friend would have passed Con law without the tutoring
(believe me, as his tutor I can tell :-), and he did pass Con law and the Cal
Bar, and to this day has a thriving family law practice in the bay area.

Marco, in your posting you mentioned the phrase, "America is Freedom", and you
mention that you feel this also means the freedom to say what you want. In most
respects that is true, however the freedom of speech is by no means absolute.
The "stereotyped America as in the Hollywood movies", depending on what your
particular stereotypes are (the ones you incorporated into your thinking), may
not really be the way America actually is (you should take Con law if you
really want to study this in detail).

The 1st amendment and the freedoms it guarantees, including speech is one of
those areas in Con law that took a heck of a lot of time and case law to go
through, and the concepts/tests and balancing of interests used by the Supreme
Court to determine the "boundaries" of free speech are some of the most
difficult ones encountered when studying Con law. Plus, the concepts in Con law
are not static, and do change with time and changing circumstances. I'll bet we
will see case law develop that will involve the relatively new (as far as
widespread use goes) technology such as the internet and e-mail. So obviously
I'm not going to try to even begin a comprehensive analysis in a news group
posting, but I bring this up just to say that there is a lot more that goes
into the concept of freedom of speech then you might think, and that people are
"not" necessarily free to say what ever they want (OK, maybe they can say it,
but there might be consequences for their saying it).

In your posting you mention "Immigration lawyers on the internet with nothing
better to do but try and shut down helpful web sites". I assume since you chose
to start a new thread with the words, scumbag Matt Udall in it, am I correct in
assuming you are referring to me trying to shut down "Charles Steen's" site?

If so, I'd like to tell you that this is not correct. Charles Steen is not
Alvena. He's an attorney licensed in the State of Texas, and from what I've
heard, he does not practice in the area of immigration law. I could be wrong
about him not practicing in immigration law, however that has been what I've
been told.

Mr. Steen is an officer of the court, and as such he has a "DUTY" to be honest
and truthful with the tribunals he deals with. I'm not sure what the state bar
of Texas' rules says, but there just might be a rule that prevents him from
lying on behalf of his clients or instructing them to lie.

I'm not trying the get Mr. Steen to remove his site, and in fact I've gone out
of my way to help make it a better site. However I do have a problem with 1
page. That page contains text that clearly instructs people to lie to federal
officers at the point of entry, and "how" to lie to them. If you want, we can
go over the points on that page one by one (I did so already in a reply to Rita
a day or so ago), and I don't think there can be any doubt that instructions to
lie to the INS officers appear on that page.

Mike mentioned that someone other than Mr. Steen wrote that page, but due to
potential liability concerns, he took his name off of it, gave it to Alvena,
who in turn has given it to Mr. Steen. Perhaps Paul (if that was you who
originally wrote the page in questions) can elaborate about what it was on that
page that caused him or his lawyer to think there might be potential liability
for posting that material.

And if Mr. Steen does not practice immigration law, he might not even be aware
that the very act of presenting oneself to an INS officer at the POE, with the
intent to immigrate but with a non-immigrant option "is" to commit an illegal
act "at" the POE (regardless of "what is said" at the POE).

Now "I" know, and I think anybody who knows what the person can "most likely"
do as far as adjusting "after" entry will know the "motive" for posting
information how to lie to an INS officer at the POE, however the "motive" for
instructing people how to lie to INS officers at the POE does not turn the
suggestion to lie into a suggestion for telling the truth.

Now, add to this information telling people to lie and how to fool INS officers
at the POE, 09/11 and "future" threats.

So I think Mr. Steen is advising people to lie to federal officers at the POE
and I understand why he's doing it. But do you really think the Founding
Fathers will start rolling over in their graves if they were to know that an
"Attorney" decided it was not a good idea, post 09/11, to instruct the world at
large "to lie" to Federal officials?
Do you really think the freedom to tell others to lie to Federal officials and
thus sneak through the POE is one of the "essential liberties" that Mr.
Franklin would champion?

M.s.
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 10:48 pm
  #15  
Paulgani
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The Chipping Away of America

"MDUdall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:20020915160916.15074.00-
[email protected]
...
    > Mike mentioned that someone other than Mr. Steen wrote that page, but due
to
    > potential liability concerns, he took his name off of it, gave it to
Alvena,
    > who in turn has given it to Mr. Steen. Perhaps Paul (if that was you who
    > originally wrote the page in questions) can elaborate about what it was on
that
    > page that caused him or his lawyer to think there might be potential
liability
    > for posting that material.

I only (originally) wrote the Tourist FAQ part, which has been heavily
modified (diluted) to my displeasure.

I had nothing to do with the entry risks section, except for my
participation in various discussions in this newsgroup involving aliens who
were unsuccessful in entry. I presume that section was written based on
said discussions in this ng.

Paulgani
 

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