Edinburgher

I was wondering if I could get some reflections and opinions about living in the US vs. the UK.

I'm American and my husband is British. We've been living in the UK for three consecutive years now, and 5.5 years in total - I have UK permanent residency. I'm finishing up my PhD (in Archaeology) and he's a pharmaceutical chemist.

I've always previously felt that, on the whole, I prefer to live in the UK (my husband says he's not fussed, and would like living either place). I like the longer holiday time and the fact that not everyone is chained to their desks here. Of course, there have always been things that drive me crazy about the UK too - particularly space, housing and the weather/lack of winter daylight in Scotland. It's also a very difficult time to be an American in Britain (or anywhere outside the US), and I'm tired of constantly feeling defensive about it.

We've recently been thinking about buying a home in the UK, and I think this may have prompted some homesickness and a strong desire to move back to the US. It seems impossible for me to weigh up the pros and cons because each issue and preference is emotional rather than rational and quantifiable.

On the plus side, we're both young - 25 and 27 - and I think it would be good for us to move now. On the minus side, I do think there are things that we would both miss in the UK - not to mention the fact that I'm specialising in European archaeology! There aren't many jobs in that field in either Britain or the US, but at least in Britain I'd be closer to field projects.

Sorry this post is quite long, but I wanted to give you a picture of the whole situation, and not just ask whether the UK or the US is better. I think the hard part for me is making up my mind and committing to either country!

elf

On the plus side, we're both young - 25 and 27 - and I think it would be good for us to move now. On the minus side, I do think there are things that we would both miss i the UK - not to mention the fact that I'm specialising in European archaeology! There aren't many jobs in that field in either Britain or the US, but at least in Britain I'd be closer to field projects.

As your Phd is in european archaeology had you thought about moving to France or Italy, giving you both a new environment and the ability for you both to practice in you fields of expertise?

Edinburgher

As your Phd is in european archaeology had you thought about moving to France or Italy, giving you both a new environment and the ability for you both to practice in you fields of expertise?[/QUOTE]

I would love to move to France or Italy (I've also considered Norway, Sweden, Denmark) but my husband isn't comfortable with the language barrier. He says he's never been very good with languages and only knows a bit of German - but neither of us want to move to Germany!

Hugh Jaas

Hi there, It's a shame you feel you have to be defensive about who you are, where you come from or any of that, I'm sorry to hear that. I can’t stand that. You do not represent the feelings of your entire nation! Be proud sod the rest.

Perhaps it is your mindset about buying a house, in some ways; I guess there is a permanency about it and you may feel a sense of rooting in.
Buying a house should not mean that you will never have the chance to go back. If you did decide after a few years, then put the place up for rent or you could sell it. I think I used to think when I bought a house that is where I would settle, no such luck, my industry seems to forever change and I’ve moved about loads. I am glad, I don’t feel rooted to one place. We have bought a house, but that’s not gonna stop us from immigrating to the US or back! I guess it would be harder when you have kids in school.

I’ve been to the US on a few occasions but only on visits, so I know it will be a different kettle of fish when we stay longer. So I can’t really make too much of a US v UK. There are things that bug me about the UK, but I love it all the same and I know I will miss the UK. I’m sure that’s what I will find in the US. I’m just hoping the likes will outweigh the dislikes. Maybe this is daft, but perhaps you should write yourself ‘pros and cons’ list, leave it up on the board and keep adding to it as you remember the things you like and dislike.

Read some of the postings on ‘moving back to the UK’ forum, although it may not relate to you directly , you might be able to tap into some of the feelings/reasons that people have when coming back and relate to some? Good luck anyway.

Manc

Just sew a Maple Leaf to your backpack.

ok seriously.

Britain is a great place, some things are nuts and stupid, some things here in the USA are nuts and stupid. it's not better or worse, just different.

NC Penguin

I think you and your husband have to face practical issues especially if and where you could both find employment and in an affordable place.

Since your field is European archaeology this will limit where you can find work. I suppose you'd focus on either museums or universities and you may want to live in an area that has good air connections to Europe.

So, perhaps continuing to live in Europe would be more practical for you? Have you and your husband considered Ireland/Eire? It's a little closer to the US, it's an English speaking country and there maybe good job opportunities for both of you (Ireland has a rapidly expanding economy thanks to the EU).




NC Penguin

Edinburgher

I agree absolutely - Ireland would be quite a good place to live. I'll have to do some research about jobs and things, but I don't know why we've never really thought of living there before!

I suppose part of the trouble is that we're having a hard time finding employment for both of us in the same area within the UK. We're both fairly specialised, and over-educated, which makes it difficult wherever we are.

I think that part of this is that my husband is feeling pretty discouraged at the fact that he has a PhD and is making £16,000 a year and working in a lab with outdated and inappropriate equipment. He's attracted by the better-funded companies in the States (partly a higher paycheck, but also better research opportunities), although I'm worried that this is a "grass is greener" situation.

For my own job prospects, I have to be flexible whether or not we stay in Britain. The number of university jobs available in my area is less than 10 in the UK, and roughly the same in the US, so I'm prepared for a more general heritage management/conservation job - English Heritage or Historic Scotland in the UK, probably the National Parks Service in the States.

Bob

If you don't have UK citizenship, moving around Europe might not be so easy, which could be a dampener on things there...
It's a tough one, so I'll just say how I came to my choice, but for me and the missus, we moved to the states, we're young, and the thought of all the greencard mess would be easier to tackle now, which was a big one. Work, standard of living on a junior position in the UK isn't very good, much better in the states, and for the work we're looking for, there's also more job opps in the states.
My mates are all over the world and aren't that grounded, so that wasn't a problem for me, some are even scattered across the states.
Also, culture, thought it would be easier to adjust to things while young, hopefully less set in my ways...hmmm...not sure about that now though

Well hope that helps

meauxna

Might she be eligible to apply for UKC by now?

Bob

Yeah, she is, lived for 3 yrs, I think that's the requirement, not 100% sure though...but that's what she would have to do if wanted to live and work in the rest of the EU

garfro

I am an American woman who was brought up in Southern California. I met my husband (English) at a pub on Sunset Blvd. in Hollywood 16 years ago. We moved to Orange County 8 years ago, and now he wants to move us all back to the U.K. (we have 2 teenage kids who have no desire to leave)
He has decided he hates life here, can't stand our political leaders, thinks the econmoy is going to fall flat on its face...basically, he thinks America is going to self-destruct and wants to get away NOW to avoid the fall-out....
He is going home to England in a couple weeks and also to No. Ireland, to check into things, see properties, job centers, etc...
I have visited England several times, and Ireland once. It is very pretty, the people are lovely but I honestly have no idea what it would be like to live there, or anywhere else for that matter, and I am still in California, where I was born and raised. I thought I would respond to your post as my situation is somewhat the opposite of yours and any feedback you might provide may be helpful to me. I have very mixed feelings about moving there. I am a full time housewife, with no college degree. I have basically cooked, cleaned and raised 2 kids (both Type 1 Diabetics) all these years. And, on one income, which is exceptional in this day and age, right? While I understand that my husband is now weary of the rat race and wants to basically semi-retire in Ireland, I am not convinced it would improve our quality of living. How on earth can I find this out? He hated England so much (20 years ago) that he came to the States to start a new life, and now he wants to leave here and do it again!?!
Okay, so if I leave here, and come to Ireland, what will I gain? Free health care? Green countryside all year long? Soda Bread? Guiness? Fresh air sounds nice...Living a slower paced lifestyle? (YIKES! BUT I'M A CITY GIRL!)Is the rat-race absent from Ireland? My husband seems to think so. I don't want to say anything against the UK or Ireland, it is just that as a California girl, I am worried I won't be able to hang living there for long. The sunshine (or lack thereof) is a concern for me. Plus, what about the 'troubles'? I am Catholic, and American to boot...I have a feeling I might be shunned!?! Have you looked into Ireland yet? Are you going to? Let me know what you find out....and I'll let you know what my hubby finds out when he comes back. Good luck with everything...at least you are young and don't have to worry about kids at the moment (do you?), that should make your decision process a bit easier. Thanks for sharing.
~Mrs. "Garfro"!

Englishmum

Mrs Garfro -

Obviously with this being a British expat messageboard most of us whom post here grew up or lived in the UK and therefore would find it difficult to contemplate your worries/anxieties from an American perspective!

I suggest that you take a look at this website which is for American expats who (currently) live or are intending to reside in the UK. Many people who post have a British spouse, just like you, so maybe they can give you some practical and emotional advice and assuage your fears. There is an extensive message board but to access some forums you need to pay a voluntary contribution to keep the website operating. There is a ton of information re; visas, health, education, driving etc. etc.

Oh, and another thing.....Higher education tuition costs are *far* lower than in the USA (even free in some cases)...which great if you have kids coming up to college age or/and if you wish to return to college yourself.

http://www.americanexpats.co.uk

Also suggest you get hold of a copy of "Living and Working in Britain" by David Hampshire...you can get it from Amazon or B&N online.

PS. I've never been to Ireland either but I do hear that Dublin is a fast-paced and thriving city....albeit now very expensive. Why not consider Scotland? (I don't think religion is anywhere near as controversial in Scotland as it is in Ireland/N Ireland, but I do know that the soccer teams in Glasgow are apparently based on religious lines...ie. Glasgow Rangers is Protestant and Glasgow Celtic are R.Catholic).

Bob

Not really, do need to be resident for a couple years before you would qualify for LEA grant/student loans, so you would be considered a foreign student, and that really isn't very cheap, granted, it is probably lower than fee's in the States, but still £7-14K a year.

Englishmum

I actually think the ruling can be contested. For claiming UK state benefits there was a case in the European Courts (the "Swaddling" decision) which allowed that returning British Citizens who are returning to take up residence in the UK can't be disallowed benefits and have to be treated as if they had never left the UK:

http://www.ac-company.org/en/forum_en/hrt_en.html

I'm pretty sure that most LEAs (Local Education Authorities) who award tuition fees and grants would back down if they were presented with the details of the Swaddling decision.

Bob

Could well be, as the case happened after I entered uni, but I knew someone that just moved back to blighty after living in HK for years, he was a brit, anyway, he had to pay uni the foreign fee which was why the LEA didn't sponsor him, they were only going to pay what they would pay for a UK student so he dropped out, couldn't afford it, and another mate was in similar situation, but he could