Is this a racist remark.
 

An English person was told by an American in quite an abusive way to "Go back where you come from". This was after they had made other abusive remarks to the person. They were told racist remarks would not be tolerated and to apologize or leave. This was at a community information booth, they then made abusive remarks to an American at the booth, and left

Now it seems very few Americans I have spoken to think that remark is racist. I cannot find a legal definition in the US of what is a racist remark. In England it is any remark which the subject of the remark or any person hearing it believes to be racist.

So opinions please.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

No idea on the legal status, but I believe it to be racist, however not all racist insults are as offensive as others, its a power thing, and the English in America generally are not at the wrong end of the stick in this regard.

UN definition:
the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life

Was this Englishman, you, by any chance?

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Apart from the offensive remark and the parting comment, it is unclear from the OP who said what to whom. Two wrongs don't make a right in that parting comment.

That said, if it's obvious the giver of "go back" knew that the receiver was from a different country then yes, I would believe it to be offensive, possibly racist but the latter is a little ambiguous in today's multi- and mixed-cultural world.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

All the abusive remarks were directed at the English person, who speaks with a clear non American accent. All the English person did was to politely ask the American to apologize or leave.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

I see the UN definition and as usual they have covered all the bases.
As far as the remark itself. Telling someone 'to go back to where they come from' is in itself not racist.. as far as the power thing I would tend to agree with you. Like all put downs, they are meant to gain an advantage. Either the one or two finger salute is normally enough to nip it in the bud.

If not ... Punch his/ her lights out:)

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Yes it was. It was the city's community booth at the Sunday Market. I was asked a question and as soon as I started speaking the abuse started. But that is by the by. Not making an issue of it and just put it down to the persons stupidity, but it is the fact that just about all the people I have spoken to (small town every one knows and keeps asking) believe there was nothing racist in being told to go back where I come from, prompted the question from me.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Why not if they were not born American, and does that change if the person is Hispanic or African?

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Offensive, yes. Racist, no. The guy sounds like a d**k to me.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

No, I don't find that to be a racist remark. His admonishment to return to your country of birth is not racist but might be construed as racist or bigotry if he had included verbage vilifying your country of orgin, your religious preference, etc. His remark could be said to anyone he encounters, even a born in the US citizen, with a regional accent. For example, a New Yorker telling a Southern to go back to where he belongs.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

When I gave an answer I had no knowledge of the race of either party, just the nationality. I still do not know the race of the American. I wonder if my answer would be different if I had known the race. I think I made the assumption that both were white, but this information was not given.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

You are taking it as racist remark because you are a foreign born American which is obvious by your accent. The same remark to an African or Hispanic without an accent would be viewed by me in the same way -- non-racist.

Obviously this person was upset and quite possibly has an issue with immigration.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

There are both white. Also to make it more complicated the other person working at the booth was a white American from southern California. They were given a mouthful of abuse, but NOT told to go back where they came from.

To me the remark was made because my accent identifies me as apparently not being American, hence it was racist.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Since you are all white, I doubt it qualifies as racist. Anti-British perhaps, but not racist... unless I seriously misunderstand the word. That you believe it was racist suggests that perhaps you're also not clear on the meaning of the word.

Ian

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

I can not imagine a scenario were a white would say "go back where you came from" to an African/African-American/Hispanic and for it not to have racist overtones.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

That I think goes to what I'm trying to understand. In the UK that remark if the person thought it was racist would get you arrested and charged with a racially aggravated public order offense. To me if it was said to a non British person in the UK it would be racist. Just another culture difference I guess, some actions are more acceptable here then in the UK.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Unless one is Indian (Indigenous peoples of the Americas), they are either an immigrant to US or a descendant.

So, if that happened to me I would say I am as American as anyone else here...phuc that. I don't care if I am black brown or white.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

I have a very clear understanding of the definition of a racist comment under English/Welsh law. Under that law the comment was racist.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

This isn't England or Wales thankfully.

The UK is obsessed with the subject of "racism", and the term is regularly mis-used. The UK's laws on the issue are daft, and far too many people make use of that when crying wolf in similar situations to yours.

My definition of racism is a someone who displays a real hatred of other races, it doesn't extend to some pillock who can't find something more intelligent to say during an altercation.

Still, your experience sounds unpleasant, and it is a shame it took place.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Yes, and that is because (as you pointed out in your original post) English/Welsh law takes the view that in this type of case "racism" is in the eye (or, possibly, ear) of the beholder and that if someone thinks that it is "racist" then there is at least a case to be made that it was racist.

I don't know what US law says, except that you can expect every state to be at least slightly different.

From a common sense perspective I don't think that a comment like this is necessarily "racist" (although it certainly may be), and I don't subscribe to the view that the definition of "racist" must include "national origin".

So, while I am sure that the remarks were offensive I don't tend to think (based on what you have said) that they were "racist".

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

According to California Penal Code Section 422.56 (f), "Race or ethnicity" is defined as including ancestry, color, and ethnic background. Section 422.56(e) refers to "Nationality" as including citizenship, country of origin, and national origin.

So, per California standards, the remarks were not racist, but rather nationalist(ic?) -- Is that a word?-- :rofl: And, obviously spoken by a xenophobe.

Just an interesting note, while California does define it's Hate Crime standards, it should be noted that in addition to the listed protected categories, being perceived as such also falls under the Hate Crime definition. Ie. someone commits a transgression against you because they think you're gay. Even though you may not be gay, it is a Hate Crime because the transgression was committed because they perceived that you were gay.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Two differing opinions.

I don't understand where all this racist crap is coming from, particularly in an instance such as this. Perhaps now is the time that all peoples worldwide are not taught verbal skills from birth as it now appears that any remark, glance, facial expression can be construed as racist. The pendulum has swung far too much and needs to find its balance.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

It is offensive but not raciest. However being in a political office in the US also opens you up to slander and liable and you can't do anything about it unlike in the UK where you can be jailed or sued for slander or liable against a politician.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

How can it possibly be racist when they are both of the same race.

And here I have been slagging of the Septics for misusing the language all these years.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

IMHO, at this point, whether it was a “racist” comment, or not, is moot – the offendee obviously handled it adeptly and honorably and dispatched the situation. The offender was, by all accounts, rude, intolerant, uncouth and socially challenged. I doubt I’d have dealt with it with such aplomb! :thumbup:

Considering that I am what my OH calls a “womble”, my personal definition of racism is quite different and not as broad-spectrum as the UN version. However, if that is the now accepted description of the word, then yes, the offender was racist in his comments. That he would be so coarse and crude, selfish and self-centered as to utter such a statement merely in the face of an “accent” is beyond me, unless he had an ulterior motive – such as declaring his “supremacy” with an intent to cause a ruckus.! :-/

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

I had absolutely no intention of doing anything about it, just wanted to see if my interpretation of the event was consistent with the general view of the BE crowd. Clearly it isn't.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

+1

I am reminded of a couple of performances I've seen lately of stand-up comedians of African origin, where they have cracked jokes about their own race which if delivered by a white comedian would probably have caused uproar. As it was, there was a certain level of 'uncomfortable' laughter amongst the audience.

So, while it is only my opinion, I think it would be hard to classify any remark as racist if made by a member of the race at which the remark is aimed. In this case it was offensive, rude, etc. but not racist.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

I agree with this -- I think the comment was xenophobic, rather than racist.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Have a real serious question for you... Now that you have seen the various comments with regard to the events you described do you feel betrayed, annoyed or has it left you feeling bewildered at the general outside reaction?

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Technically, since you're both the same race, I don't know if it is "racist" at least as far as the word is commonly used in the US vernacular. But the remark is full of bigotry, prejudice and hate, which feels the same to the person on the receiving end.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

On the point of both being the same race, how would it be seen by an average American if both parties were white, but one was Latino?

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Latino is not a race.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Generally, speaking from an American point of view, even though Latinos are called "white" for statistical purposes, they have never been considered "white" even within their own community. It has only been in recent history that Latinos/Hispanic/Mexican etc have been accounted for as "white". So, in popular sentiment, and from a genetic standpoint, it would definitely be considered racist.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

He's giving a perfectly reasonable scenario for a rhetorical question and you're splitting hairs about word meanings and definitions.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Its shitty that that was said to you, and whether it was technically racist or not, it was extremely offensive, unprofessional, prejudiced and a complaint would certainly be justified. Someone like that has no business dealing with the public.
I remember once being told by an old man at an airport that I needed to "learn to speak some English"
Wanker.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Would that still be the case for a latino of European descent. Someone like Diego Forlan as an example, would he be non white in peoples minds? That was the kind of scenario I was thinking.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

No. He'd be considered white. I'm speaking specifically to the races/cultures that were formed when the conquering Spaniards forced the indigenous people adopt their language and religion.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

While it wasn't very clear from the rather convoluted description in the original post I believe that the person who made the remarks was "the public" and that it was the person "dealing with the public" who was the unfortunate recipient of them ...

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

That's PC-gone-mad UK though isn't it.

Sounds like the definition of racist has expanded to include non-racial differences. Personally I would call it xenophobic.

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Racist, no. Offensive, xenophobic, unnecessary - yes.

The guy was a bell-end, no question, but the phrase 'go back where you came from' could just as easily have been said to some local scrotes making trouble (and be perfectly justified in that case!)

Re: Is this a racist remark.
 

Apparently in England you are being racist for calling a Frenchman, French.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/evert...0252-28400787/

Judge Fletcher said: "Sibson’s heckle was offensive and racially aggravated by its reference to Saha’s national origin"