TheEmperorIsNaked

It is a worse in the US, but this attitude to those who struggle;-that it's their fault, is prevalent here in Australia.

The obscene thing in the US is the level of the divide though.

To form an opinion that appears to be based on the principle that everyone has the same opportunity-and thus it is their fault that they are doing more menial work earning lesser money;-is the most absurd and frankly unintelligent rationale that I've heard!

'All men are created equal'? Sounds nice, but is simply untrue.

One small comfort is perhaps recognising one's own failings, by choosing a very appropriate signature..

SATX John

This is a myth. The poverty line in the US is aprox $18 a year (per INS). Come on. The average UK immigrant can more than meet that, even working at McDonald's or any minimum wage job.

Are there people in poverty, yes. Same as UK = dole and other programs.

The idea that this is wide spread for a large portion of the population is incorrect. This is like showing a Kosavar neighborhood in the UK, the "travelevers" or the minimum level in the UK.

Completely unrealistic, and not correct for most people.

TheEmperorIsNaked

Poverty in any country is awful. The issue is that poverty in what is considered to be the wealthiest country in the World, is a disgrace.

And there IS a high level of poverty in the US. Denying it does not make it any less evident.

Bob

Big difference being medical insurance....if you're working all hours on minimum wage you'd be earning enough to not get childcare/housing/medical help, which means most of your money is gone before you've even bought groceries, never mind paying for a tank of petrol.

There is also a much larger gap in CoL across a city, never mind the various parts of various states.

You just can't afford to live in Boston on minimum wage if you want to live somewhere that isn't sharing with 5 flat mates in a 3 bed apartment, so if you've got a family, that's miserable.

SATX John

Most companies have health plans, if you pay or they have it. Thats a fact. No free lunch. If someone choses to live in Boston, vs Austin that is a choice. Same as Hull vs. London. Cost of living is different and that is that persons decision. If you chose to libe where a flat is $2500 a month that is your choice, or you could live in a more affordable area, again choice. Contrary to many beleifs, all are not equal. If you are honest and have a work ethic, you will do well here. If you want the dole, stay in Europe. Just saying, Opportunity breeds larger rewards.

The thread portrays a massive poverty, not present in the majority of America.

Giantaxe

60% of employers offered some kind of health insurance in 2011, although it's true that most large employers do. That doesn't stop something in the region of 45 to 50m people having no health insurance. And before you shout "Medicaid", only four states offer it to adults who aren't living with minor children.

fatbrit

Why should I have to work for someone else to get my health insurance? Not much choice there.

fatbrit

7.50 x 40 x 50 = 15k

Your math is wonky.

Oregon4now

His math is pretty accurate if he lives in Washington State where the Min wage is $9.04 per hour . 9.04 x 40 x 50 = 18k.

Min wage Varies from State to State.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

Giantaxe

With over 8% unemployment, many involuntarily working part-time and many discouraged from work-force participation, why is the minimum wage particularly relevant to a discussion about poverty?

Bob

You need to get out a little. Leave your little cozy bubble at home for a minute.

Poverty is massive in the US. The lower end of things is much worse here.

People go where the jobs are, if folks get a job in Boston and have to either drive in from way out or take the commuter rail, they're spending around $30-40 a day and if they're spending that on childcare on top, there's not much left on a minimum wage job.

Also, how many dead end jobs actually offer medical insurance? Not that many and realistically, unless you're working at a large company, chances are it'll still be very expensive.

This thought that if you work hard you'll be rewarded is bullshit, short and simple. Tell that to someone working 80 hours a week on minimum wage that he's a lazy shit for being in poverty and see what that gets you.

HumphreyC

^

I mean I agree with a lot of that - but why is this theoretical person commuting into Boston for a minimum wage job ? You can get one of those somewhere outside the Boston metro area where it's a lot cheaper - any of the malls around the Burg for example (got the impression that people doing minimum wage jobs in Beantown are more likely to be living in places like Chelsea or Dorchester which are ghetto but pretty close commute-wise) Having this discussion with my brother in law at the moment - why work in McDonalds in Sturbridge when you can do the same job round here ? Yes your neighbors are more likely to be dealing but your $$'s go further.

He does get health insurance working his job with McDees - but having looked it up I think it's a really crappy one which gives you a generous $5,000 max of coverage a year. That's the problem on top of the uninsured - the under-insured that have coverage on paper but whose policies are worthless.

jasper123

Bob I could not have put it any better, well done,
I lived in the U.S. for 36 years until recently, now Im back home in UK for good, I worked at a large company for years in U.S. there health plan was not bad, $25 per week, but of course I had to pay all the co-pays for doctors and MRI's and prescriptions etc etc ------ then they had a mass lay off, I was one of em, they offered me Cobra protection for get this ----- $475 per month, yeah right, out of work and having to pay that
I got sick quite a few times in the 4 years to follow, could I go to the doctor? NO, and even if I could afford the Docs visit could I afford to pay the full price for the prescriptions? NO, the American system is so so bad,

I live in England now, Im retired, I never have to ever worry again about not being able to go to the Doctor or hospital, if I need an operation I can have it without the additional worry of all the bills coming in later, never have to concern myself ever again with wondering if I can afford the prescriptions, (because I dont have to pay for them)
for the very first time as far back as I can remember I can go to the dentist every 6 months for a check up at my NHS dentist, charge for examination/ex-rays and cleaning & buffing £17, and the most they will charge for a whole lot of work if needed is £237, thats it!!!! no matter how much that has to be done --- root canals, crowns, fillings, whatever

I get to go to the eye Doc once a year for a free examination,

I get a free bus pass to take me everywhere, I even get a winter fuel allowance to help me pay my power bills in the winter,

My next door neighbor has a Son who is 32 and he suffers with epalectic fits occasionally so the government here in UK has determined that he cant work anymore, so this is what they give him ------ they found him a nice flat, and they pay for his rent (IN FULL) and they pay for (all) his utility & phone bills plus his tv licence paid, ----- and on top of all this they give him £100 (EVERY) week just for food, all these benefits will be given to him for the rest of his life!!!! -------- with yearly cost of living increases paid on the
£100 per week food money,

Unlike the U.S. poor people are looked after very well indeed across the U.K.
but the only problem is as far as I can see is that people here Just dont have a clue how good they have got it,

If any American middle class or poor had even close to all this care then they would think they have died and gone to heaven

Bob

Big difference, a lot of those chain places like McD's are corporate owned in Boston, so they do come with holiday allowances etc. Out in the burbs they are franchise owned, our local one provides state minimum benefits of zero holiday allowance and zero paid sick leave....which is why we don't eat there as who wants food prepped by a sick person who can't afford to take time off and hasn't been able to afford a day off in 3 years straight?

Plus I know quite a lot of folks who live in Worcester who work multiple jobs, some of them in Boston because the crap jobs locally are taken by the students.

Ethelred_the_Unready

Well said!

Too many Americans are oblivious to the plight of the poor. Our of sight, out of mind. I have been poor in both the US and UK and if I had to choose, I'd rather be poor in the UK 1,000,000 times over. As it is, I can't even get my health issues taken care of, plus I spend endless time commuting.

No place to be poor or even somewhat short of cash. So many activities in America depend upon money. Even here in New England which is less American in many ways than most parts of the US, I still have to drive to a national or state park.