Re: Poverty in the USA
 

The US has always had a fairly large area of poverty which has been neglected for decades/centuries. It has been the song of many middle class Americans ... Charity Begins At Home. As one of the middle class taxpayers, I whistle that tune when I see the outpouring of monies by our government and private charities raising funds for other nations. We have a need here at home that is not being met. When I donate hard earned cash or make up food baskets for donations to local food banks, I always make sure that the funds are used for our country's citizens. Yes, I will donate to those causes that are emergency situations, i.e. Haiti, Thailand as I see the need there as well. First and foremost my thoughts and assistance, as meager as it is, goes to home causes.

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

I don't get this quote. What exactly are you advocating? Is there income equality in the UK? Germany? Swizterland? France? Belguim? Russia?

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

My issue with places like Haiti is the sheer corruption which results is a large percentage of aid money never reaching the intended recepiants. I know some Mennonites whose father was an Amish who founded an orphange which has grown into a school and free clinic in Honduras. They tell me the government there skims some off the top but nothing like Haiti.

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

There is income equality in those places, of course there is, but for most (possibly all - I really don't know about Russia) class mobility is markedly better than in the US.

For me that's one of the most frustrating things about the US, the self mythologizing that has lead - amongst other things - to the belief that there's no class system, or if it's admitted that there is, the belief that it's not as severe as in the UK. Yet despite playing on this myth for profit and exporting stuff like Downton Abbey, the UK has better statistics when it comes to social mobility.

There's more than enough money to help those in need in the US, and extra to boot, just not much of an appetite to do it.

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

The US is not exactly a sterling example, but it's worse in the UK:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ocial-mobility

Also, you could argue that social mobility is less important when average income is so much higher in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...PP)_per_capita

Wrong, see above.

Wrong again, Americans are far, far more giving than any European country:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...giving-country

But hey, believe what you want. Apparently Americans are the blinkered ones. Also the BBC is completely unbiased.

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

I have a hunch that a large dollop of American charity is accounted for by the crazy churches. Buying your pastor a Lear and his wife a facelift doesn't count in my book.

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

It's not. The fault rests solely with former US President Ronald Reagan.

Ian

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

Income equality, for the sake of carrying it to its logical end, is nothing short of Communism. Perhaps you don't understand that!

Ian

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

So you don't think it's possibly a touch out of balance?

Communism works quite well on a small scale -- a kibbutz is a good example. But there's no evidence it works on a large scale. However, this is not an argument that we should fight against inequality. The opposite end, which we are too far towards in the US, is an oligarchy. I don't want that, either.

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

I don't know if you're being tongue-in-cheek (I genuinely have no idea), but at the risk of stirring political rants into this thread, what do you mean?

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

OK. Not in a good mood today, so I should leave well alone, but there is a couple of points I'd like to make.

Average income does you no good when you lose all off your social benefits with your job. At least in most of the rest of the west, you (and your family) get to keep your medical coverage and your family.
As for the average being higher, yes it is but what you get for your money is a lot less. Here in my part of Oregon, over 50% of people earn less than $20,000 per year. Out of those, over 60% receive no benefits whatsoever, including healthcare.

As for charitable giving, governments in Europe tend to take care of that, especially foreign aid. In the US the onus falls more on the individual. There's also less need for domestic charitable giving when your country has a decent healthcare system and safety net.
When you take something like foreign aid by country, the US comes out a lot worse than the majority of Europe.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ec...to-foreign-aid
Also, what constitutes giving to charity? My wife just took off with three tins of food that we don't want. She can hand them in at Dutch Bros. for a free coffee? Is that a charitable donation? Knowing her, she'll ask for a receipt for next years taxes!!!!

You know what really gets me? The local news anchors smirking with pride when they talk about the local food bank getting some left over crap from Safeway, or another non-profit collecting shoes and coats for local kids to wear to school. For ****s sake, this is the richest country in the world. Get of your arses, investigate and report on why these kids need shoes and coats from a charity, on why in a town of 80,000 are there over 5,000 homeless, why during a recent cold snap (5F), only 1 in 5 of the largest churches in town opened their doors to the homeless, why has the house next door (and hundreds more) has been repossessed, laid empty for 2+ years but when you call the bank they say it's not for sale. The list goes on and on.

Anyway, I've got to go to work. The ranting may resume later :)

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

Since you ask... I'm serious! :) Reagan created (or destroyed, depending on your POV!) the current welfare state in the US. The result is much the same either way. The increase in poverty rates was collateral damage.

Ian

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

I think men and women should be paid equally for work of equal value... but I don't think, for example, that all software programmers should be paid the same based on their job title. Some are better... some are worse. There has to be some leeway for differences in ability. Those who are better able should earn more.

As Lord Loam put it, "Any pleasure I might get from being equal to the Duke is diminished by the thought of the footman being equal to me!"

I also believe that some people are just too stupid to breed. I feel bad for the children... the parents should be beaten severely for being weak-willed.

Ian

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

Social mobility in the US is worse than in nearly every other western economy. It is also getting worse here according to the report on this in the WSJ. Couple this with the lack of a credible social safety net and you end up with a situation where many people are being totally devastated by the current economy. Comparing the situation even to the UK is kind of dumb given the fact that in the UK the safety net is not wafer-thin as it is here.

The US has many strengths and its individualism has served it well. The "American dream" really was a reality for many. The worrying thing is that that strength is now eroding and it's difficult to see the political will to do anything about it.

Re: Poverty in the USA
 

It makes me angry, and what I do not understand is the lack of anger in America, well there is anger but it seems to be directed at the poor.

I love that they have someone from 'The Heritage Foundation" to give the right view, and he seems to think that poor families will self report that they have left their own children hungry.