McZaki

Folks,

Hope you're well.

I am exploring an opportunity to relocate from California to New Jersey, and I would greatly appreciate if you could share any experience around the best places to live in and around NJ, for a family with kids.

Prospective place of work would be downtown Newark - a few blocks away from the Newark Penn Station. I've got kids in the elementary school, KG and year 2. I was in NJ last week and browsed around Milburn, Summit, Short Hills, and Edison; great schools there, but just too suburban for my liking and not very much there in terms of convenience to shops, things to do etc. I live in Mountain View, SF Bay Area - CA, ideally, a similar place would be just right!

Whilst I was in NJ, I also looked at a few properties in Manhattan, Brooklyn heights, and the Queens, but the local schools were poorly rated and the traffic was atrocious. Also, except Manhattan, the neighborhoods looked shoddy! No offence intended to the dear residents of Brooklyn and Queens - the buildings just reminded me of Manchester in the 80's and 90's!

Any guidance in this matter is much appreciated.

Cheers!

Englishmum

Well the further away you are from NYC the more suburban it gets.

Did you visit Hoboken? We have friends who live in Garden St and love it there. We also know an empty nester couple who have just moved to Hoboken; prior to that they were in central Switzerland for 3 years and more than a decade in the Minnesota suburbs before that...the husband works in the financial district in Manhatten. Hoboken has a lot of diversity, mixtures of singles, couples, families and also students attending the Stevens Institute.

I love Hoboken, it has a great vibe and the nearest equivalent I think to SF in New Jersey; there are some great places to eat there (personal faves include Amanda's, the Elysian, La Isla (fab Cuban food, v. cheap)

Amanda's Restaurant | Hoboken's Finest Dining

Elysian Cafe | Hoboken's Finest Bistro Cuisine

Cuban Restaurant NJ La Isla Restaurant New Jersey

Cucharamama, Hoboken - Menu, Prices & Restaurant Reviews - TripAdvisor

The downside of Hoboken is that parking is a total nightmare and paid parking is expensive (due to the proximity of the Holland Tunnel and PATH trains). You can either get an apartment with underground parking, rent your own parking space - if you can find someone willing to rent it out, or take your chances with street parking but I think you need a residents permit for more than a couple of hours. Property has in the main either been gentrified or there are newly built apartments and prices are sky high.....our friends in Garden St can only afford to stay there as it is rent stabilized and they've bought a weekender in CT. The other couple we know sold their house in MN and bought a new apartment in Hoboken but he is on a decent salary....they are finding it hard to adjust to a smaller place than they are used to though.

I have no idea about schools in Hoboken, probably not great and I think the private Catholic schools are a cheap option if that's a route you want to explore. Otherwise it is why families relocate to the suburbs to raise their families.....but now there is a trend for older couples to return to the cities when the kids have grown up.

I found it tough after living in the city-state of Singapore for a few years and we relocated to NJ (spouse worked in Times Sq, NYC) and it was a nightmare trying to find somewhere with a decent public school system. We ended up in Short Hills, within walking distance of the Middle School and High School. It ticked all the boxes for public transport to NY, safe, clean and one of the best school districts in the US....but yes it is and was too cookie-cutter or Stepford Wife like for me lol

We have since moved away (back to Singapore on another posting and again to central Switzerland where we currently reside). We still have the house in Short Hills as our now adult son is living in it lol.....we are trying to think of what to do with the house when we leave here, if we keep a property in NJ then Hoboken is a possible option.

A good source of info for each NJ town is to go to the NJ forums on City-Data but you might have to trawl through loads of posts and in the archives:

New Jersey Forum - Relocation, Moving, General and Local City Discussions - City-Data Forum

Btw; don't even think about living in Newark....the Ironbound District is supposedly safer has it has a big Portuguese/Brazilian/Ecuadorian community and again some good restaurants. However, it's not that safe and there is a lot of street crime, drugs, gangs and shootings...mainly black on black crime tbh...but my son goes to the NJ Devils ice hockey games at the Prudential Center and you only really see a big police presence when there is an event on there. We have had people knocking on our car window in Newark at night asking for money....

PS. I have no idea if you just want to rent or buy a property in NJ or whether you find it a necessity to have a garden or willing to live in an apartment....you might want to consider a brownstone in the Hamilton Park historic district of Jersey City. It is very pretty and considered to be quiet and safe in that area. Jersey City is very close to Hoboken and the PATH trains also operate there to NYC.

9 Reasons to Move to Jersey City Right Now | BrickUnderground

Official Jersey City Tourism and Travel Information

GeordieinJersey

Hi we live in West Windsor NJ home of Princeton Jct train Staion on the North East Corridor train line so v.Easy commute to Newark 35-40 mins at peak times njtransit.com our town may be too suburban for you but the next town over 10 mins away is Princeton a lovely University Town lots of shops restaurants and coffee shops .Great schools and very walkable .It has the dinky train that runs 1 stop to the train at Princeton Jct . Princeton housing is expensive wether you are renting or buying but coming from California maybe you won't get sticker shock .It is a lovely town for families lots going on . Good luck

McZaki

Very informative and helpful, particularly the links to the focused discussion forums, many thanks Englishmum!

I have not explored Hoboken, but the public school within the locale are not good; similarly, the public schools in the Jersey City are not very good. It seems, for the children's education, we will have to opt for living in the sticks for a bit!

The plan is to rent for the first 12 months and then buy the property within the same locale, hence selecting the "right area" initially is taking the precedence particularly considering that we should move to an area where we can easily afford to buy a property as well; I really liked the properties in Manhattan and the local schools were ok as well but moving there is not sensible as I wouldn't be able to buy a property there!

McZaki

Many thanks for your reply.

I have heard many good things about Princeton, particularly the school district, and after your post, I have been researching the rental properties there. I will be in NJ next week, and will definitely spend some time exploring the locale - I have already made a few appointments to view some properties.

Because of the kids, the decision is tough, ideally, we want to get it right the first time as the plan is to rent for the first 12 months and then buy the house close-by so the kids don't have to go through the school change again! Princeton seems like a safe punt.

GeordieinJersey

I Think you would be happy in Princeton it is a very kid friendly town and there is a lot to do - Theatre, Cinema and a great Y. It has parks and a community pool . And is close enough to New York and Phillie for some nice trips and the Jersey shore, which is wonderful, is only 40 mins away. Having the university there makes the town quite a rich culturally and in the summer there are lots of programs for children. It Is nice on a summers evening to see families with young children walking around town out for ice cream .

McZaki

OMG...I have just noticed that the property tax in NJ is almost as high the monthly mortgage payment - It seems I would have to think through this relocation a bit more carefully. I cannae understand, how is it possible for the landlords to let their properties around 3K when the property taxes are so high!!

McZaki

Do you know if the apartments at the "Avalon Princeton Junction" and "The Mews At Princeton Junction" are any good?

Englishmum

Tell me about it. It would be great if we could rent our house in SH out but it's just not worth it; our property taxes on a very modest 3 bedroomed house are coming up to $16k per year! This is due to it being a top school district...from time to time I look up houses in our zipcode (07078) and have a near heart attack when I see that it the luxury exec houses their property taxes are upwards of a whopping $60k per year No wonder so many people move out of the State when they retire...our neighbours did as they couldn't justify staying with high taxes....unlike the UK you don't get a discount if you are a single person living in a property. We will probably decide next year about whether or not to sell it as our posting is due to end in Switzerland....it's not easy to sell from afar and our son is currently living in the house but it will be time for him to fly the nest lol!

Also bear in mind that maintenance on property is far higher (in our experience) than in the UK; all of those houses need to be painted every 5 to 7 years unless you have that horrible plastic siding. Few properties are made of brick unless it's an historic building.

Most places need pest control and owners take out a contract with a pest control company - there are lots of big bugs in the US You will also need regular servicing of the furnace and air-con. In the winter you may need to get someone to plough your drive and if there is a sidewalk you are most likely responsible for clearing it or face a ticket from the Town Hall....or a law suit from someone who slips on the ice. Many people don't have the time to clear it if they need to get to work....It all costs.

When we moved from an apartment in Singapore to the NJ suburbs I thought it would be great to have a garden again.....omg no it wasn't! Our front lawn is on a slope and I had no idea how quickly it gets dark on Summer evenings...spouse wasn't getting home from work until at least 7pm or later and I thought I could mow the front and back lawns in about 30 to 45 mins.

First of all as the garden is big - third of an acre plot - I couldn't use an electric mower and we bought a petrol one. I could barely lift it out of the shed and tbh I was wary of it in case a spark caused a fire. I didn't realise just how hot it gets in the Summer, much hotter than in Singapore, although a little less humid....some days are over 100F and you just want to hide indoors in the air-con. It would take me the whole afternoon to do the mowing!

Anyway after spending hours mowing the lawn and struggling with the sloping lawn, some guys from a lawn service mowing the grass next door were laughing at me....it turned out that no-one in our neighbourhood mows their lawns and they get a garden service ie. a bunch of guys with a sit-on mower and a strimmer to mow the lawns once a week. The guys who were amused by watching me mow the lawn as they mowed our garden before we moved in. They asked me if I wanted them to continue and I just had to say yes....this is another huge cost, hundreds of $ per month

Another thing; utility bills are high and you pay monthly. In the UK in the Summer there are little or no heating costs....in NJ it is so hot and humid you need air-con or you would never get any sleep. It costs a fortune...likewise in the Winter it can get so bitterly cold you have to whack the heating up. It is much warmer here in Switzerland than in the NJ winters, believe it or not!

I also thought that Maplewood or South Orange might be worth considering...suburban towns on the Midtown Direct and Hoboken train line which go through Newark Broad Street station (buses too to Newark) and they are very diverse and again a nice vibe; very arty with many residents working in the media, theatre, TV and Broadway, musicians, mixed races, many gay families. You could be home to office in 20 to 30 minutes. You just need to look for a house with reasonable taxes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/re...burb.html?_r=0

In hindsight I wish we had rented....we have had many expat friends who stayed in NJ for between 3 to 12 years; one family is moving here next month after 10 years of renting and our very dear friends are moving back to Oz next Summer after 12 years of renting....they've had no worries about having to replace a roof, furnace, air-con system, painting the house outside, termite removal and treatment, new appliances etc. Unless you decide to put down permanent roots think very hard about it.....selling a property in NJ also involves paying 6% in realtor fees and other NJ taxes.....

GeordieinJersey

Well yes they are both located in West Windsor where I live.It is a bit deceiving when you see Princeton Junction in the name it is actually named after the station which is in West Windsor not Princeton. Avalon is a nice apartment complex with a pool and well maintained . Not sure how expensive they are but a good place to start when you first move here. The Mews at Princeton junction are much newer part of a development of single family homes and town houses closer to the train station poss walkable . West Windsor has a blue ribbon school district possibly better than Princeton's ( a bit of a debate there) and the two apartment complexes would put you in Maurice Hawk elementary school catchment ( my son went there) . Other places to check out are the town houses at Canal point ( closer to Princeton) and Windsor Haven Townhouses( closer to the train station) these are developments with lots of rentals . You did say you wanted a walkable town , and although this is a nice place to live,it is suburbia and you will have to drive. We are close to the Mall and shopping etc we have a lovely community Pool, parks , Library and of course the train .We are close to Princeton but for the most part driving is a way of life here in West Windsor .

tht

Property tax's / Prices and school ratings have a high correlation most places outside the city, you want good public school, you have to pay. In the city its worse, you will pay high tax's and not have good public schools.

Funny that you wrote off Brooklyn, I moved to Wiliamsburg (Brooklyn) in 2012 from the East Village (Manhattan) to buy vs. rent. Since then prices and rents have shot up to higher than the East Village in many cases.

In the city you also need to understand that not every one pays the same property tax. My condo was a new development with a 421a, so my annual property tax is less than $500 a year and will stay that way for nearly 25 years. A lot of landlords also have these on new builds in certain areas so that can be less of a factor in setting rents.

If you lived in Manhattan (NY) and worked in Neward (NJ) you are also opening yourself up to filling state and city tax's in extra places.