Chris Parker

    > that wouldnt be consiidered a hardship, would it?

You need to show more than a (normal) hardship...

    > If not, what exactly is it that they consider to be an extreme hardship?

You need to show more than a (normal) hardship...
You need to show more than an extreme hardship...
In fact, you need to show an exceptional and unusually extreme
hardship.

Very, very difficult (exceptional and unusual) to do.

    > unfortunately, I couldnt open t hat link.......what was it of? Im very
    > interested.....Thank you!

That link is a recent BIA decision which discusses exactly what an
"exceptional and unsual hardship" means. You should type it into your
browser in full and read it. Warning: this reading requires deep,
cognitive thought!


CP

Chris Parker

    > What are you talking about? Most of the time, it is his spouse doing the
    > posting here. Where did you see a sign of abuse? They decided to come
    > clean with INS so that they could have a normal life.

Spousal abuse can take on many forms. In particular, we are talking
about immigration-related spousal abuse.

- Refusal to file an I-130 for a foreign spouse
- Threatening to turn in/turning in your foreign spouse to INS for
deportation
- Demanding/requiring your foreign spouse to work illegally and/or to
engage in document fraud to obtain such work
- Other marital situations/problems may also develop in the situation
and also help the alien qualify for spousal abuse benefits

I just cannot believe that a lawyer could call it ethical to turn his
own client into authorities as their legal representative and also
tell his client that he did so and also suggest this was the best
course of action. If the lawyer is in fact representing Emily,
however, it does make the sense for him to do so ("Jerome has to leave
the U.S., and perhaps you Emily do also").

I think Jerome needs to carefully assess his martial situation with
own immigration lawyer (different lawyer), and, if appropriate, this
lawyer should prepare an I-360 spousal abuse self-petition to file
with VSC.

I think it is becoming clear to us that married couples facing
obstacles like Jerome faces will eventually develop spousal abuse by
the U.S. citizen because of the frustration and the associated
friction that develops, and the marriage will eventually fall apart
(by divorce or deportation) without spousal abuse benefits granted for
the alien. Jerome has already admitted he can't continue the marriage
the way things are now, so the signs are there.

If Jerome really does want to turn himself in, this will also do that
more effectively. I wouldn't be surprised if INS just trashes the
illegal alien complaint the lawyer sent; I'm sure they get thousands
of those every day (unsubstantiated, of course) and realize that 50%
or more of them are spousal abuse in action. Further, in completing
I-360, Jerome also must declare that he is an illegal entrant to INS.
Legal entry, however, is not a requirement for battered spouse
benefits (nor for adjustment under Section 240A), although he will
remain ineligible for adjustment under Section 245.

Comments?
CP

LeightonJ

OK LETS SET SOME THINGS STRAIGHT.....
1.)IVE NEVER REFUSED TO FILE THE I-130 FOR MY HUSBAND.
2.)IVE NEVER THREATENED TO TURN HIM IN TO THE INS FOR DEPORTATION.
3.)NO, IVE NEVER DEMANDED HIM TO WORK ILEGALLY...BUT I DID WORK EXTRA HOURS TO PROVIDE ENOUGH MONEY FOR US TO LIVE. (PROOF I LOVE MY HUSBAND AND I RESPECT HIM, AND THE SITUATION HE IS IN, AND AM WILLING TO DO WHATEVER NECESSARY TO MAKE THINGS WORK.
4.)YOU ARE CRAZY. OBVIOUSLY YOU DONT READ THE POSTINGS FULLY, OR YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SAY....EITHER WAY...JEROME AND I HAVE A VERY LOVING RELATIONSHIP AND MARRIAGE.
5.)NO, JEROME ISN'T FED UP WITH OUR MARRIAGE...HE CANT CONTINUE TO WAIT FOR THINGS. ITS NOT EVEN ME....I COULD PROBABLY HOLD OUT, BUT HE HATES SITTING HERE EVERYDAY DOING NOTHING WHILE HIS FRIENDS ARE WORKING AND IN COLLEGE. I KNOW I HAVE COMPLAINED OF WORKING LONG HOURS ON OCCASION, AND HAVING TO WAIT TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL TOO, BUT I REALIZE THAT THINGS TAKE TIME..OUR HOUSE IS EQUIPPED WITH A WEIGHT ROOM, A LAPTOP, AND INTERNET ACCESS, VIDEO GAMES AND DVD PLAYER, AND WE LIVE IN AN EXTRAVAGENT APARTMENT IN A HISTORIC PART O OF MY CITY..WHERE WE ARE WITHING WALKING DISTANCE TO MANY THING....I WOULDNT MIND SITTING HOME MAKING THE MOST OF MY TIME, BUT JEROME IS DIFFERENT THAN ME AND HE CANT STAND IT.....SO, TO EACH HIS OWN....
6.) WHY LIE IF THERE IS NO ABUSE? SORRY, WE JUST AREN'T DISHONEST PEOPLE.
7.)THERE WAS NO COMPLAINT SENT TO THE INS....WHERE DO YOU GET THIS STUFF FROM? YOU PULL IT OUT OF THE SKY OBVIOUSLY....WHAT HIS LAWYER SENT WAS A SIMPLE LETTER MAKING THE INS BE AWARE THAT HE IS HERE ILLEGALLY. READ WHAT WE POST THOUROUGHLY.
8.YOU HAVE THINGS TWISTED, CP......JEROME WANTS TO DO THIS.....HE IS TIRED OF WAITING ON STUFF.. I SURE AS HELL NEVER CALLED HIS LAWYER AND TOLD HIM TO TURN HIM IN...THAT IS SIMPLY LUDACRIS!
9.) THE LAWYER IS REPRESENTING JEROME, AND MAKES ALL DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT JEROME WANTS, NOT ME.
10.)PLEASE SPARE ME....ENOUGH WITH THE WHOLE ABUSE BIT ALREADY, HUH? THERE IS NO SPOUSAL ABUSE GOING ON HERE. JEROME CHOSE, AND PAID FOR HIS LAWYER WITH HIS OWN MONEY, AND JEROME IS THE ONE THAT CALLS HIM AND MAKES THE DECISIONS. I JUST SUPPORT HIM 100%. I NEVER THREATENED HIM, OR MADE DECISIONS FOR HIM......!

COMMENTS??????????

L D Jones

LeightonJ wrote:
    > Originally posted by Chris Parker:
    > > > What are you talking about? Most of the time, it is his spouse doing
    > > > the
    > > > posting here. Where did you see a sign of abuse? They decided to
    > > > come
    > > > clean with INS so that they could have a normal life.
    > >
    > > Spousal abuse can take on many forms. In particular, we are talking
    > > about immigration-related spousal abuse.
    > >
    > > - Refusal to file an I-130 for a foreign spouse
    > > - Threatening to turn in/turning in your foreign spouse to INS for
    > > deportation
    > > - Demanding/requiring your foreign spouse to work illegally and/or to
    > > engage in document fraud to obtain such work
    > >
    > > - Other marital situations/problems may also develop in the situation
    > > and also help the alien qualify for spousal abuse benefits
    > >
    > > I just cannot believe that a lawyer could call it ethical to turn his
    > > own client into authorities as their legal representative and also
    > > tell his client that he did so and also suggest this was the best
    > > course of action.
    > > If the lawyer is in fact representing Emily,
    > > however, it does make the sense for him to do so ("Jerome has to leave
    > > the U.S., and perhaps you Emily do also").
    > >
    > > I think Jerome needs to carefully assess his martial situation with
    > > own immigration lawyer (different lawyer), and, if appropriate, this
    > > lawyer should prepare an I-360 spousal abuse self-petition to file
    > > with VSC.
    > > I think it is becoming clear to us that married couples facing
    > > obstacles like Jerome faces will eventually develop spousal abuse by
    > > the U.S. citizen because of the frustration and the associated
    > > friction that develops, and the marriage will eventually fall apart
    > > (by divorce or deportation) without spousal abuse benefits granted for
    > > the alien.
    > >
    > > Jerome has already admitted he can't continue the marriage
    > > the way things are now, so the signs are there.
    > > If Jerome really does want to turn himself in, this will also do that
    > > more effectively.
    > > I wouldn't be surprised if INS just trashes the
    > > illegal alien complaint the lawyer sent;
    > > I'm sure they get thousands
    > > of those every day (unsubstantiated, of course) and realize that 50%
    > > or more of them are spousal abuse in action. Further, in completing
    > > I-360, Jerome also must declare that he is an illegal entrant to INS.
    > > Legal entry, however, is not a requirement for battered spouse
    > > benefits (nor for adjustment under Section 240A), although he will
    > > remain ineligible for adjustment under Section 245.
    > >
    > > Comments?
    > > CP
    > OK LETS SET SOME THINGS STRAIGHT.....

[ ... ]

    > COMMENTS??????????

Yes, stop posting in all caps.

Chris Parker

    > 6.) WHY LIE IF THERE IS NO ABUSE? SORRY, WE JUST AREN'T
    > DISHONEST PEOPLE.

Absolutely do not lie! A denied spousal abuse petition is certainly
something you do not want! The INS sees enough people trying to
circumvent marriage fraud provisions by making false claims about
spousal abuse. You have a valid marriage; don't taint its validity
with false statements to the INS.

    > 7.)THERE WAS NO COMPLAINT SENT TO THE INS....WHERE DO YOU GET THIS
    > STUFF FROM? YOU PULL IT OUT OF THE SKY OBVIOUSLY....WHAT HIS LAWYER
    > SENT WAS A SIMPLE LETTER MAKING THE INS BE AWARE THAT HE IS HERE
    > ILLEGALLY. READ WHAT WE POST THOUROUGHLY.

Same thing, really, but I haven't seen the letter and don't know what
it said and where it was sent. I doubt you'll get any response, and I
doubt they'll do anything with it since he has no file. This is a
potential spousal abuse action from an immigration point of view, in
my opinion (not legal advice)

    > 8.YOU HAVE THINGS TWISTED, CP......JEROME WANTS TO DO THIS.....HE IS
    > TIRED OF WAITING ON STUFF.. I SURE AS HELL NEVER CALLED HIS LAWYER
    > AND TOLD HIM TO TURN HIM IN...THAT IS SIMPLY LUDACRIS!

It is, of course, your decision what to do with Jerome and about
Jerome and his situation. And you should know, of course, that some
forms of spousal abuse can be subjected to criminal penalities
(including possible imprisonment) under state laws. It is illegal to
be an abusive spouse. It is also illegal to enter the United States
without inspection.

The immigration law is very twisted in this regard, since it will
reward an illegal alien like Jerome with immigration benefits such as
employment authorization and cancellation of removal if he is
subjected to extreme cruelty by his U.S. citizen spouse as a form of
abuse, but it won't otherwise.

    > 10.)PLEASE SPARE ME....ENOUGH WITH THE WHOLE ABUSE BIT ALREADY, HUH?
    > THERE IS NO SPOUSAL ABUSE GOING ON HERE. JEROME CHOSE, AND PAID FOR
    > HIS LAWYER WITH HIS OWN MONEY, AND JEROME IS THE ONE THAT CALLS
    > HIM AND MAKES THE DECISIONS. I JUST SUPPORT HIM 100%. I NEVER
    > THREATENED HIM, OR MADE DECISIONS FOR HIM......!

This is, of course, an uncomfortable subject. Spousal abuse does not
require either party to seek a divorce, BTW. In fact, the immigration
law requires that he entered the marriage in good faith and remains
married to the abuser until he files the I-360 self-petition.
Depending on the type of abuse, if it is bona fide, some kind of
restitution and reconciliation will be expected, but it doesn't have
to be divorce necessarily.

    > OK LETS SET SOME THINGS STRAIGHT.....
    > 1.)IVE NEVER REFUSED TO FILE THE I-130 FOR MY HUSBAND.
    > 2.)IVE NEVER THREATENED TO TURN HIM IN TO THE INS FOR DEPORTATION.

If that's true, and remains true, then Jerome can't claim these things
as forms of spousal abuse for immigration benefits.

CP

Melissa

OK, I was finding this whole thread and Chris's responses to it very
confusing, but I think I have just finally figured it all out.

Many years ago, a boyfriend was applying for unemployment benefits, and
responded to the examiner's specific question with, say, a 'YES'. The
examiner asked the question again. My boyfriend's response was again, 'YES'
to this particular question. This went on for some time until my boyfriend
answered 'NO' and the examiner continued with other questions, and in the
end, my boyfriend got his benefits.

In other situations, a loving, long married couple may divorce in order for
one of them to qualify for medical benefits, because as a couple their
earnings are too high to qualify for aid, and staying but would surely
result in instant and permanent financial ruin. As a divorced person,
though, the still-beloved, now-ex spouse will qualify for financial
assistance during his or her prolonged illness....The couple will still live
together and love each other, but no longer be legally married, nor
destitute.

Do you see what Chris may be trying to tell you? Is it possible there may be
another route, a very strange one, to the same end you seek? Playing by the
governments rules as to the letter of the law, and with your desired
outcome, but on an unconventional, and maybe even shocking path, to those
who would know your situation, but a perfectly legitimate one by the
government's standard? One which might be unethical to suggest, but not
unethical to follow, if it could be proven?

Melissa


"Chris Parker" wrote in message
news:cebf7f45.0209281557-
[email protected]...
    > > 6.) WHY LIE IF THERE IS NO ABUSE? SORRY, WE JUST AREN'T
    > > DISHONEST PEOPLE.
    > Absolutely do not lie! A denied spousal abuse petition is certainly
    > something you do not want! The INS sees enough people trying to
    > circumvent marriage fraud provisions by making false claims about
    > spousal abuse. You have a valid marriage; don't taint its validity
    > with false statements to the INS.
    > > 7.)THERE WAS NO COMPLAINT SENT TO THE INS....WHERE DO YOU GET THIS
    > > STUFF FROM? YOU PULL IT OUT OF THE SKY OBVIOUSLY....WHAT HIS LAWYER
    > > SENT WAS A SIMPLE LETTER MAKING THE INS BE AWARE THAT HE IS HERE
    > > ILLEGALLY. READ WHAT WE POST THOUROUGHLY.
    > Same thing, really, but I haven't seen the letter and don't know what
    > it said and where it was sent. I doubt you'll get any response, and I
    > doubt they'll do anything with it since he has no file. This is a
    > potential spousal abuse action from an immigration point of view, in
    > my opinion (not legal advice)
    > > 8.YOU HAVE THINGS TWISTED, CP......JEROME WANTS TO DO THIS.....HE IS
    > > TIRED OF WAITING ON STUFF.. I SURE AS HELL NEVER CALLED HIS LAWYER
    > > AND TOLD HIM TO TURN HIM IN...THAT IS SIMPLY LUDACRIS!
    > It is, of course, your decision what to do with Jerome and about
    > Jerome and his situation. And you should know, of course, that some
    > forms of spousal abuse can be subjected to criminal penalities
    > (including possible imprisonment) under state laws. It is illegal to
    > be an abusive spouse. It is also illegal to enter the United States
    > without inspection.
    > The immigration law is very twisted in this regard, since it will
    > reward an illegal alien like Jerome with immigration benefits such as
    > employment authorization and cancellation of removal if he is
    > subjected to extreme cruelty by his U.S. citizen spouse as a form of
    > abuse, but it won't otherwise.
    > > 10.)PLEASE SPARE ME....ENOUGH WITH THE WHOLE ABUSE BIT ALREADY, HUH?
    > > THERE IS NO SPOUSAL ABUSE GOING ON HERE. JEROME CHOSE, AND PAID FOR
    > > HIS LAWYER WITH HIS OWN MONEY, AND JEROME IS THE ONE THAT CALLS
    > > HIM AND MAKES THE DECISIONS. I JUST SUPPORT HIM 100%. I NEVER
    > > THREATENED HIM, OR MADE DECISIONS FOR HIM......!
    > This is, of course, an uncomfortable subject. Spousal abuse does not
    > require either party to seek a divorce, BTW. In fact, the immigration
    > law requires that he entered the marriage in good faith and remains
    > married to the abuser until he files the I-360 self-petition.
    > Depending on the type of abuse, if it is bona fide, some kind of
    > restitution and reconciliation will be expected, but it doesn't have
    > to be divorce necessarily.
    > > OK LETS SET SOME THINGS STRAIGHT.....
    > > 1.)IVE NEVER REFUSED TO FILE THE I-130 FOR MY HUSBAND.
    > > 2.)IVE NEVER THREATENED TO TURN HIM IN TO THE INS FOR DEPORTATION.
    > If that's true, and remains true, then Jerome can't claim these things
    > as forms of spousal abuse for immigration benefits.
    > CP

Chris Parker

    > 5.)NO, JEROME ISN'T FED UP WITH OUR MARRIAGE...HE CANT CONTINUE TO
    > WAIT FOR THINGS. ITS NOT EVEN ME....I COULD PROBABLY HOLD OUT, BUT
    > HE HATES SITTING HERE EVERYDAY DOING NOTHING WHILE HIS FRIENDS ARE
    > WORKING AND IN COLLEGE. I KNOW I HAVE COMPLAINED OF WORKING LONG
    > HOURS ON OCCASION, AND HAVING TO WAIT TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL TOO,
    > BUT I REALIZE THAT THINGS TAKE TIME..OUR HOUSE IS EQUIPPED WITH
    > A WEIGHT ROOM, A LAPTOP, AND INTERNET ACCESS, VIDEO GAMES AND DVD
    > PLAYER, AND WE LIVE IN AN EXTRAVAGENT APARTMENT IN A HISTORIC PART
    > O OF MY CITY..WHERE WE ARE WITHING WALKING DISTANCE TO MANY
    > THING....I WOULDNT MIND SITTING HOME MAKING THE MOST OF MY TIME, BUT
    > JEROME IS DIFFERENT THAN ME AND HE CANT STAND IT.....SO, TO EACH
    > HIS OWN....

Jerome sounds like he'd make a good homemaker-dad. A child can demand
a lot of your time, and caring for one is indeed fulltime work (and
expensive). Quality daycare is expensive also for working families.

Perhaps, you should consider having a child to keep Jerome busy and
occupied? (just a thought...)


CP

Mrtravel

LeightonJ wrote:
    > OK LETS SET SOME THINGS STRAIGHT.....
    > 1.)IVE NEVER REFUSED TO FILE THE I-130 FOR MY HUSBAND.

Maybe you could post with a different ID, so there is no confusion
between your postings and your husbands. If you are writing on
behalf of him, then say so, don't pretend to be him.


    > 4.)YOU ARE CRAZY. OBVIOUSLY YOU DONT READ THE POSTINGS FULLY, OR YOU
    > DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SAY....EITHER WAY...JEROME AND
    > I HAVE A VERY LOVING RELATIONSHIP AND MARRIAGE.

You need to followup the original thread, or if creating a new thread,
you need
to give enough information in order for people to know there was a
previous thread
they could refer to.
!
    > COMMENTS??????????

Mr. Parker made assumptions based on the initial posting in a NEW
thread.
He is really a helpful person, but he had no reason to suspect you had
posted before
in another thread.

Mrtravel

Melissa wrote:
    > Do you see what Chris may be trying to tell you? Is it possible there may be
    > another route, a very strange one, to the same end you seek? P

I don't think that is what Chris meant. I think Chris wasn't aware of
the other thread.

Chris mentioned abuse. I doubt that turning one's spouse into INS could
classify as abuse
under what INS considers to be abuse. Claiming abuse when there is none
would clearly be
illegal. In your example you talked about a couple getting divorced for
medical benefits.
As long as no laws were broken, that would be an acceptable solution, in
my mind.

So, although I don't know how Chris made the leap to abuse, I don't
think it was related to
committing fraud by lying about abuse that didn't happen.