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Hi everyone, (skip to * to avoid waffle)

This is my first post on the forum and I come with a few questions, unfortunately, I dont think I will be able to add anything useful to the forum (yet ), so sorry!

Ok, so, I am currently studying physics in the UK and have just finnished my 3rd year of a 4 year course which should give me an MSci by the end of it (as opposed to a BSc or an MSc). This would be enough for me to apply to do a PHD at a UK university. A phd at a uk university is typically 3 to 3.5 years, however it seems to me that a graduate program in the US is 4 to 6 years, the first to mainly being taught, and the latter 4 being research.

I would like to do a PHD in physics after I graduate and am currently considering my options, one of which being to study in the US where it seems there is alot of funding and good research programs. I have been thinking about MIT mainly, as the east coast of the US appears to me more than the other areas and, ofcourse, MIT is a good university.

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Ok, so my questions are:
1) Is it likely that I have to do 6 years on a US graduate programme or just 4; I dont fancy much doing 6 years of PHD, when I could do 3.5 in europe and get paid.

2) Am I right in saying that US graduate programmes are unpaid? How much will doing this likely cost me? Would I have to rely upon my parents to pick up the slack in my funding (which I feel quite guilty about so far). Finally here, how easy is it to "win" one of the grants such as from fullbright, et cetera.

3) Finally, how difficult is it to actually get acceptance on such a graduate programme? A will probably leave my uk uni with good grades, but that will be pretty much all I have to offer.

I tried searching about the internet, but didnt really find solid answers ( I realise they are quite specific questions). I will be emailing the admissions departments of any universities I am interested in, aswell.

Thanks a lot!

Bob

1- depends on the course, usually having the teaching element makes doing the study affordable, you could probably do it with less teaching element but you'd not be liable to as much or any of the grants, so it could be more expensive.

2- Grants, no idea on post grad, for undergrad you'd get nothing, post grad, the working usually knocks off cost of study and perhaps a small stipend to survive on top.

3- MIT is really hard, they do have the cream of the crop and so can afford to be picky...fantastic campus though, really nice area, parking sucks goat and it's way, way, way expensive living in that area unless you can live on campus or commute in, but it's on the redline, Kendal Square, which is easy to get to, and the Microsoft Centre is around the corner and that's very cool and they often do stuff together.

Carnegie (sp?)Mellon in PA is another really good school to consider, not the best locations though.

Depending on the area your looking to study, a lot of the tech jobs, certainly in this area require a security clearance which frankly you won't get. So that's something to consider too.

Bill_S

My Ph.D. is in the bio sciences, and I earned it in Canada, but I'll have a go at your questions.

1 - How long it takes will depend on how well you, your supervisor, your project, your funding and your department all align. Some students get out fast (4-5 years), some linger. In other words, there's no way to tell you right now how many years you'd be in for (without more details about what school you'd be going to).

2 - Many departments will have stipends for grad students. In the bio field, the NIH awards "training" grants so that students can be paid. I don't think foreign students can be put on training grant support, though. When you contact schools of interest, be sure to ask about student stipends.

3 - That will surely depend on the school. The top schools like MIT and CalTech will have a lot of applicants to choose from. If you don't get in there I'm sure there's a graduate physics department somewhere in the USA that could find room for you.

AdobePinon

How long it takes depends on many things as mentioned above. Expect it to take between 4 and 6 years for most. The plus side is, you'll probably get a better education and be more employable in the US.

Most scientific departments pay some or all of their graduate students, either to teach, or to do research, or both. How much (i.e., whether you can live on it) depends on the university and the department. Foreign students usually are eligible for this support.

caleyjag

Yay! Something I can really help with.

I'm a physics guy. I've studied and worked back and forth between Scotland and the west coast for the past decade, with surprising ease (in most cases), so I have a pretty good background on the matter.

The first thing is that moving here to study physics is a very viable option. So unlike most posters on here, you have a pretty good shot of coming to America. American universities are full of foreign researchers.

Now, in order to make this dream a reality, you need to quickly build the right strategy. You are doing the right thing by aiming at somewhere like MIT. Top-tier research schools have the professors that have the money, and that is what you are going to need - a rich professor who can pay your fees (which will be substantial) and a stipend for you to live off.

Firstly, don't limit yourself to MIT. Despite what you may know from the movies, MIT and Harvard are not the be-all-and-end-all. There are 10 or 20 schools that have equivalent level physics faculty. While you should aim top-tier, it doesn't really matter which one you end up in, because at that level......

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR YOUR PHD IS WHO YOU WORK FOR, NOT WHERE YOU WORK.


Secondly, applying for a PhD at a place like MIT through the front door will be very difficult. BY FAR the easiest way is to develop a personal relationship with a faculty member you want to work with prior to applying for the program. I call this the side door. It is perfectly legit and is a way many eminent faculty use to select their students (why pick an unknown when you already have a guy you like who is keen?)

Your goal, for the next few months, is to figure out a list of professors whose group's research you find particularly interesting. Then you need to find out their funding (this can be done online, governement grant info is public) and most importantly of all, try and figure out what they are like to work for (contact their ex-students, etc.) Some will be your new best mate, some are slave drivers. It is also very important to make sure your professor is well known in his field. Usually in MIT or Stanford etc. this is a given. The reason is that if he is powerful he will be able to open doors for you down the line. This will be very important should you want to pursue a position of your own one day.

Now, once you have a shortlist of interesting positions, it's time to network. That begins at home, in your department at home, especially if you know a guy in your UK uni who knows someone in the US you are interested in working with. If your UK uni is good, that is extremely likely. Most research fields are small and intimate.

If you have more than one summer left, I would recommend using BUNAC next summer to get out there. Offer to work in a lab for free for a few months. This will really get your foot in the door. At the very worst, you'll have a decent American prof as a reference.

Finally, if all else fails and you have to do your PhD in the UK, pick a good prof in the UK, wrap it up in 3 years and you will be out on a postdoc in California in no time at all.

EASY!


Let me know your specific research interests and abilities and I can probably advise you better where you should be aiming.

_underscore_

Ah, cheers guys for the quick responses! It now seems like a real possibility for me to study in the US.

Well, (un)fortunately, I am not too fussed about what area of physics I would like to enter. Solid state physics and nanostructure physics appeal to me, and I would be interested in getting into the more application side of it, such as microprocessors (but not on an industrial/production level) or metamaterials. Thats part of the reason America appeals to me as a place to do research, it seems that the universities have a good relationship with industry (hence to large funding, i imagine).

I suppose one of the reasons that studying in America appeals to me is because, whilst reading through stuff about UNIX, GNU, processors and the like, you see that their origins come from certain ones of the famous US. Well, now I sound like a wannabe computer scientist, but I do want to do physics :P.

I must say aswell, that I am a bit tentative about going to the US. It certainly doesnt appeal to me in its entirety, which is why I was limiting myself to the East coast (which does appeal to me), unfortunately at the expense of all those awesome Californian unis. I suppose I will have to become more open-minded about it.
Sounds like a good suggestion Caleyjag, it is similar to what a professor of mine said to me a few weeks ago, try and get contacts. I will certainly try to do this next year at uni (which is my last year and so this is my last summer).

How does the American PhD system compare to the european-type ones. Ive been told that it is much more independent than the european systems, where the professor of the group is very much in charge. Ive also heard that you must try and get funding yourself, as opposed to the professor getting funding for the group and managing it himself.

Well, as it stands, I am going to aim to study in the US. Previously, I was going to try to study in europe (not UK). So thanks everyone for the info, its been very encouraging!

Bill_S

The answers will vary greatly depending on the department and the professor. Some supervisors watch their students very closely, others give students a lot of leeway.

Once again, in the biochemistry/mol biology world, I've seen professors at the top of their game refuse to take students who don't have their own salary grant/fellowship; leaders of the best labs at the best institutions can afford to be picky. On the other side of the coin, an excellent professor in a good department might have just scored a large grant (with salary support included) and will need to hire people in order to spend the money.

BTW Caleyjag's advice was excellent.

Muswell Hill

Answers..
1. They are usually 5 years. 2 taught, 3 research.
2. A PhD is a "paid" degree. You will get a stipend of about $20-25K per year plus health insurance from your lab PI's grant.
3. MIT is super competitive. There are a lot of very good uni's in the US and i would suggest going to a lab where you will enjoy the work, regardless of the name or fame of uni. For a PhD the name and fame of your supervisor is a lot more important. You will also need to take the GRE exam, maybe others, and these are the hardest thing about a US PhD.

Best of luck,
MH

leeph84

Hey,

I was in exactly the same position as you almost a year ago and am about the start a gradschool over there. Despite graduating with a first class degree and coming in the top 3 of my year, having publications to my name etc etc, I didnt quite get into somewhere anywhere nearly as good as MIT/Caltech/Stanford/Princeton. I applied almost exclusively to Californian schools and also applied for High Energy theory so perhaps that goes some way to explain my situation given that HEP-th is notoriously competitive. If you have experimental research interests then it will certainly be alot easier for you.

It is definitely a lot harder for international students to get into the top programs, you can check the website www.physicsgre.com that lists applicants profiles each year. You will see that international students applying for HEP-th usually have near perfect Physics GRE scores, first class (or equivalent) grades, top few of their year, undergraduate publications, various prizes. By far the best strategy you can have is to go over there for the summer and do research there/make contacts, that will help you chances to that university so much.

I don't mean to dash your hopes, but all I am saying is don't expect to just walk into a top 10 (or even top 20) program over there or it will be a big shock to your system if you are usually top amongst your piers in the UK, I know it was for me. It will be easier though if you are an experimentalist, and easier again if your not into High Energy.

As for the length vs UK length, this has been something I've been thinking about a lot, but I believe you will have a lot more publications under your belt by the time you finish, so the PhD in the US, will almost be equivalent to your UK PhD+first postdoc. Plus it will def improve your chances of getting a job in the US if you did leave academia and want to stay there after the PhD.

Chaunticleer

Most of your questions have ably answered by those experienced in post-grad science, but as someone who attended US grad school in a much different and less useful field -- history -- I feel I have one piece of advice to offer: Don't limit yourself to one region of the country, or to elite schools. Set aside any preconceived notions about certain areas of the country and apply to and visit whatever schools appeal to you, regardless of the location. You may be surprised at what you find. Many of the big state unis have excellent grad programs, and can offer very good funding packages. I was certainly hesitant about moving to the midwest to attend a school with 36000 students, but it was one of the best decisions I ever made, and I got a wife out of it, to boot.