New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
Sep 30th 2011, 2:42 am
#61
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Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,886
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
That's a bad idea...I don't agree with prescription chargers as well. Free at the point of service is crucial so that there is no barrier for people to see a doctor. For the poor a small charge, even if it is reimbursed, can be a discouragement. Access to healthcare is vital for public health. I believe it's why the UK is healthier than the US.
I don't see what's wrong with a targeted charge for doctor's visits. Prescription charges exclude whole ranges of people and doctor's charges could too. There's no reason why a lot of the population couldn't pay a charge and it wouldn't act as a disincentive to access. Otoh, I think the NHS studied this at one point and concluded that it would be a logistical nightmare that was more trouble than it's worth. I guess the difference with prescriptions is that pharmacies are already set up to deal with financial transactions; doctor's offices are not.
Sep 30th 2011, 4:24 am
#62
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,105
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
Interestingly, the local GP where I lived in Scotland, would not see me based on my spouse visa (residency) but would only register me (or see me) when I got my NI card.
So obviously NHS within themselves doesn't really know what they are to do in the first place.
And even though we've not lived there in over a year, I'm sure if I went back to them, they'd see me without a question? I never planned to go back to them as we are expats now and covered here in the USA, and we honestly thought not paying into NI meant no NHS services. We were wrong! So go figure! Obviously the average person doesn't really know the rules, but those who want to take advantage DO know the rules and know that the NHS folks are powerless or unsure of the rules. I'm glad they are tightening these rules and enforcing.
So obviously NHS within themselves doesn't really know what they are to do in the first place.
And even though we've not lived there in over a year, I'm sure if I went back to them, they'd see me without a question? I never planned to go back to them as we are expats now and covered here in the USA, and we honestly thought not paying into NI meant no NHS services. We were wrong! So go figure! Obviously the average person doesn't really know the rules, but those who want to take advantage DO know the rules and know that the NHS folks are powerless or unsure of the rules. I'm glad they are tightening these rules and enforcing.
Sep 30th 2011, 8:20 am
#64
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 139
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
even though they are bringing in temporary nurses from abroad.AND the universities are still traing nurses, even though most will not find jobs. Of the dozen or so students I had in my last year, only one has since found a job.
AND the last 5 years or so there have been a LOT of closures, if I give just one example, the 'elderly care/respite beds' in one London borough alone were cut from 220 in 2005 to just 10 in 2011.
That's a lot of nurses looking for jobs.
AND now of course, cutbacks in the MOD mean there are now ex-military nurses also chasing jobs.
If you care to look at the NHS jobs website, its pretty dismal.
I recently looked on Friends Reunited for the nurses I trained with, and found that 19 out of 22 have emigrated.
Sep 30th 2011, 9:13 am
#65
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Joined: Sep 2011
Location: brum
Posts: 738
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
Its been like that for a long time, the department I worked in was staffed 90% Filipino.
AND the universities are still traing nurses, even though most will not find jobs. Of the dozen or so students I had in my last year, only one has since found a job.
AND the last 5 years or so there have been a LOT of closures, if I give just one example, the 'elderly care/respite beds' in one London borough alone were cut from 220 in 2005 to just 10 in 2011.
That's a lot of nurses looking for jobs.
AND now of course, cutbacks in the MOD mean there are now ex-military nurses also chasing jobs.
If you care to look at the NHS jobs website, its pretty dismal.
I recently looked on Friends Reunited for the nurses I trained with, and found that 19 out of 22 have emigrated.
AND the universities are still traing nurses, even though most will not find jobs. Of the dozen or so students I had in my last year, only one has since found a job.
AND the last 5 years or so there have been a LOT of closures, if I give just one example, the 'elderly care/respite beds' in one London borough alone were cut from 220 in 2005 to just 10 in 2011.
That's a lot of nurses looking for jobs.
AND now of course, cutbacks in the MOD mean there are now ex-military nurses also chasing jobs.
If you care to look at the NHS jobs website, its pretty dismal.
I recently looked on Friends Reunited for the nurses I trained with, and found that 19 out of 22 have emigrated.
Sep 30th 2011, 9:25 am
#68
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,024
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
Actually, I think a small portion of the NHS costs is funded from NI payments, but you are correct that it is primarily funded by taxes.
Sep 30th 2011, 11:13 am
#69
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
I wonder how they could possibly police it effectively. There is really no way of telling where someone is or isn't living, or if you have or haven't recently returned to the UK. Are they going to challenge every patient to demonstrate their eligibility? Trying to staff that would be an enormous challenge!
Sep 30th 2011, 11:15 am
#70
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
Showing your NI card wouldn't prove you had made any contributions anyway. The poster who said this may have got confused with the NHS card.
Sep 30th 2011, 11:17 am
#71
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
I got Middlemore's claim that the NHS is overrun with freebie foreigners and that it's staffed by foreigners. The answer is given in one of her earlier posts -- she worked in a central London A&E. So it's actually quite understandable, even if it is wholly misleading. But like you, I'm stumped on 19/22
Sep 30th 2011, 12:39 pm
#72
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 537
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
Why is everyone talking about 1922? I thought the NHS started in 1948........
Sep 30th 2011, 3:24 pm
#73
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Location: Avon Lake, OH
Posts: 5,270
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
Then they all turn up at A&E because they wouldn't have to pay which would make emergency care for those who need it pretty crappy. Overall it would probably cost the NHS more to charge a tenner for a GP appointment than it would keeping them at no charge. You would end up it a situation similar to the US where you'd have a significant charge for A&E that may get wiped out depending on if you got admitted but also stops a lot of people who should go there from going and a low charge for a doctors appointment.
Sep 30th 2011, 4:30 pm
#74
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
Then they all turn up at A&E because they wouldn't have to pay which would make emergency care for those who need it pretty crappy. Overall it would probably cost the NHS more to charge a tenner for a GP appointment than it would keeping them at no charge. You would end up it a situation similar to the US where you'd have a significant charge for A&E that may get wiped out depending on if you got admitted but also stops a lot of people who should go there from going and a low charge for a doctors appointment.
The difference is that in the US it has to be life threatening to get any treatment.
Sep 30th 2011, 8:56 pm
#75
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Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,024
Re: New law means expatriates will have to pay for NHS care back in Britain
My point was simply correcting a point of fact regarding the source of funding for the NHS. These threads on the NHS always end up with incorrect statements about who is eligible, who pays for it, etc.
My understanding from the multiple times these threads have come up before, and reading the UK government Web sites is:
Emergency NHS treatment is free at point of service to anyone who is in the UK, whether they are a permanent resident or a visitor
Routine NHS treatment is free at point of service to UK residents (not just citizens) only, regardless of how long they have been resident, whether they are employed, or whether they pay taxes.
If you give up UK residency, you lose eligibility for routine NHS care (even if you are a UK citizen, or pay UK taxes).
NHS is funded by taxes and NI.
