Vixsta

Hi

We've got the opportunity to move to Orange County CA. The original job offer was for SF East Bay Area but my husband's new employer has decided to open a new office in LA county or Orange County and wants my husband to head it up. Exact office location not yet decided.

It's such a big step moving (as you all know). I posted a thread a while back re salary (thank you all for your advice) and on the advice we got we managed to get the starting salary increased to $120k (it was $90k before).

Now what I'm worried about:

1. Schools - we have 3 children (12, 9, 7). If we come out and hate it (already planning my return) is it easy for kids to fit back into the UK education after a few years of American schooling? I don't want to ruin their education.

2. Worried the children will find it hard settling into new schools and find it hard to make friends.

3. What's Orange County like? I know that's a bit of a stupid question but where are the nice family areas with good schools? We've never been!

This is a new job for my husband who currently runs his own business in the UK. He's wanted to "live the dream" for a long time and we've been debating a move to the USA for the last 5 years! I'm worried we"ll regret it but if we never try it we'll never know and like another poster I would hate to regret it in years to come!

All advice and help gratefully received.

Pulaski

Well for starters, your 12 year old's education will be a train wreck if you return to the UK in three years because the US education system doesn't have 'O' levels or anything remotely similar. People do take 14-16 year olds back to the the UK, but it makes getting their education back onto the British educational path, extremely dufficult, because not only are their 'O' levels messed up/ missing, but they lack the foundation for 'A' levels, as the US doesn't have anything like those either.

Is your husband's prospective employer used to hiring from overseas? Because from what you say it's hard to fit your story into a possible visa category for your husband. It can't be an L1 because you have to have worked for your employer for a minimum of 12 months outside the US, and an H1 isn't going to be available for work starting before October 2015 (unless he just got an H1 in the April 2014 application round?). So, is he actually going to get the visa to allow him to work in the US?

Vixsta

Sorry I should have said visas are sorted. He has an H1B and me and the kids have H4.

andrewlohnes

O levels unless I'm missing something they stopped O levels here in England about 25 years ago!

They're GCSE's now

HartleyHare

Oh please, don't be such a drama llama! I don't agree that the 12 year old's education will be a "train wreck", but upon return they will probably have a heavy workload to begin with. We're here for 2 years and came with our 12 yr daughter. When we return to the UK next year she will be due to start year 10. This would give her 2 years to complete GCSEs. We spoke to the school before we left and her school will assess her work and if needs be would drop her back a year. Of course, this is dependant on her getting a place in her old school. However, we are renting our UK home out, so with any luck she will get in. We are also prepared to pay for a tutor and give her any other help to catch up. I would suggest that you talk to you current school and determine how they would treat your child returning in years 10 and 11.

There have been plenty of threads on the MBTTUK forum from people returning from all over the world with teenagers in the 14-16 age range and how they have managed to slot back into the UK system. If you return at age 16 your child could attend a local 6th form/college and study for GCSEs and A levels. As you would need to meet the 3 year residency rules for university fees and funding anyway, it would just mean you child starting university at 19 instead of 18.

Marc_ely

I made the move to Orange County, CA in January this year after receiving a lot of help on here.

As Pulaski says the kids education may be a bit messed up if you go back to the UK, due I would say to the mismatch in years. They start school later in the US than the UK. When my boys (6 and 9) started here the youngest was leaps and bounds ahead of the US kids and he was only an average student in the UK. The eldest was one of the top students in the UK and is the same level here although the gap has closed a little. It obviously depends upon how good your UK school was. We were in a large village/small town with a 300 kid school. We thought that was big but the elementary they are now in is 900 kids! We find it’s quite impersonal compared to the UK.
My kids settled fast and have made friends easily. It is harder to get to talk to the mums though as most of them park up on the road and the kids come to them. In the UK all the mums (and dads) stood around in the playground waiting. This has made socializing with other families much harder than we thought it would be.

$120k in Orange county with 3 kids will not be easy. Your husband will take home around $7k a month. Your H4 won’t allow you to work. Rents for 4 bed houses are around $3500 and are going up. OC has volatile housing and is one of the few areas in the states to be at or nearest highest prices for properties. Lots of things are more expensive in the OC than the UK. Car insurance, electricity, gas, water, mobile phones, TV supply, broadband… Food is about the same as long as you don’t just go to one supermarket, as competition works differently between supermarkets here. A simple sliced loaf may be $4 in one, and $1 in the next.

OC is good for families. The area is largely a flat basin the nearer you get to LA, this would be north west OC. Areas are Santa Ana, Anaheim etc. I personally don’t like those areas at all. As you move inland and down it becomes hilly and far more attractive. We are in Mission Viejo which is hilly and has trees everywhere. It feels open and spacious. Other nice areas are Laguna Hills, Aliso Viejo, Rancho Santa Margarita, Foothill Ranch and maybe Irvine. I say maybe Irvine because it is a real polarizer of a place. It is flat and pretty crowded but has excellent schools that attract a very large proportion of Asians as they put a very strong value on education.

The facilities in these areas for kids are very good. There are parks every couple of miles. All of them are clean with great equipment. There is no litter, graffiti etc. There are lots of attractions to visit. Disney is the obvious one but at $500 for a family of five for the day it’s not cheap. We haven’t been yet.
The beach is less than half hour away. The coastline has lots of beautiful beaches but the water is rather cold (about the same as the North Sea most of the time!). Most surfer dudes wear wetsuits. There are lots of regional parks, some of which go up into the Santa Ana mountains and those are great if you’re outdoors-y.
It’s a good central location to explore. It’s about 70 miles south to San Diego, 50 miles to LA, and in terms of timescales you can get to a Ski resort in a couple of hours, or the desert.

Pulaski

"Heavy work load", "drop her back a year", "hire a tutor"!

If I, as a student, had been subject to that sort of "adjustment" I would consider it to be a train wreck. That you make light of the, er, "situation" that you are making for your daughter is __________." [Not sure what adjective to put in here. .... "Surprising", ..... "not surprising"? ..... ? ]

If your daughter ultimately fails to deliver an exam performance consistent with her potential by the time she leaves high school, perhaps you will think back and ask yourself what part of the failure was due to the double relocation of your daughter at the time in her life when she needs to be totally focussed on her school work. On the other hand, perhaps you won't.

HartleyHare

I'm glad the poster above has mentioned that $120k may be a struggle. I'm on the East Coast, we're a family of 3 and we would not have moved here for that salary.

If you've worked out a budget and don't mind sharing it, some of the members that live on the West Coast would probably give it the once over for you to see if you've missed/under estimated any costs.

Also, again if you don't mind sharing, did you get a relocation package? There will be start up costs that you may not be aware of and it's a good idea to know these in advance.

We're not trying to put you off, but make sure that you have all of the information so that there's time to approach the company to increase any financial package/salary.

Pulaski

That we can agree on! $120k for a family of five is not generous, and there are going to be some expenses that you don't have in the UK. Such as you have to pay for/ supply all sorts of school supplies that are free in the UK: paper, pens, paper kitchen rolls and other classroom consumables, and of course text books.

And then there's medical expenses, and not just the insurance premiums, but "copays" and "deductibles" for medical treatment and prescriptions, and the cost of that can soon stack up, so you'll need to become fluent in "medical expense speak".

HartleyHare

Which is why I have said speak to the current school to establish how a child entering year 10 and 11 would be treated. As I said, I spoke to the school before I left and my daughter was already pupil there so they had a good idea of her capabilities. The school said it would be unlikely she would need additional help from a private tutor and neither the school, my daughter nor us her parents, have any issue with her being put back a year.

I count amongst my closest friends a head teacher and two school governors and from conversations that we've had, there is an increasing amount of pupil mobility, especially in London and many schools are well equipped to to deal with it. Our current tenants are from Germany with three children. Their eldest is the same age as my daughter and is attending the same school that our daughter left (probably took her place!). He has very little English, but has settled in extremely well with lots of support from the school.

We consider our move here to be have been an enriching experience for all of us and at very little risk. We have tried to encourage a sense of adventure in our daughter and to show her not be afraid of trying new experiences. I think that experience bringing her to US and all that it entailed has been a valuable life lesson for her and in the future if she ever gets the opportunity to live or work abroad she has an experience on which to base it.

I just find it very sad to base what could be a fantastic opportunity on the societal expectation that learning can only take place at certain ages and you're screwed for life if you fail to achieve GCSE/A levels/university at the prescribed age.

andrewlohnes

$300-400 a month for AC?? Ouch!

thinbrit

I believe he meant total electric bill, not an extra $300-$400

Pulaski

I did, but that amount is almost entirely for running the AC. I have gas heat, and in the middle of winter my electricity bill drops to about $60, so in my case, (assuming everything else is more or less constant year round) the AC comprises 70% of my highest bills. For a $300 bill the AC would be responsible for 80%, and at $400 the AC would be 85% of the bill.

[Note: These figures are likely overstated for CA]

andrewlohnes

Blimey and I moan about paying £80 a month here, although I only live in a 1 bed flat. I'll try not to use the AC then...

bewildering

You will not need AC in Orange county. I live in SD and the climate is pretty similar to OC. I have AC but very rarely use it. My average gas/electric bill is about $60.

Obviously if they move well inland they may need more AC, but even then it is just an option. The CA climate is pretty nice.

I would say that $120K with 3 kids in the OC is comfortable with no childcare costs, but try to get some sort of housing allowance. That would really help, and perhaps could be negotiated?

Don't worry about the kids education, they will be fine. Kids adapt