WARPed

This is going to be a pretty long post so I'll start by saying it is really only relevant to those who have knowledge of Seattle and Washington State, although I welcome comments from anyone with something worth adding. This isn't meant to be a moan or to disparage anyone. I'm trying to convey how I feel to facilitate relevant responses about whether those with experience of the area, feel a move to Seattle, WA could improve my quality of life.

Basically, I have been in the US due to marriage for 21 months now and quite frankly am really not enjoying it here since misplacing my rose tinted glasses. I'm sure my situation and environment are playing a big part in the souring of my attitude. I'm now feeling, after some research, soul searching and reading of comments in other threads here, that a move to another State (Washington, Seattle Area) could help improve my attitude, an attitude which is currently crying out to get on a plane and go home.

I'm 32, male and used to live in Essex and commute for over an hour a day into London for work. My profession is in IT (Windows Server/Desktop Support). I don't have a degree, which was not a problem until now, but since trying to get a job in the US I feel it hurts my chances badly. In the future I may try to rectify this, but that doesn't help the immediate situation. I do have vendor certifications (Microsoft/Cisco) and have spent much of my time since arriving in the US updating them to help my employment chances. I have been eligible for employment for over a year now, had many interviews but no job offers. Jobs in my field are scarce and many are for government contractors who require DoD clearance which I cannot get. This situation obviously hasn't helped my adjustment to the US.

I currently live in St Petersburg, in Tampa Bay, Florida. St Pete itself is a nice place for the most part. It is on the water. I rent in a nice neighborhood with a balcony 20 feet from the water. Downtown is small and enjoyable and you see a lot of people in the waterfront parks, jogging, dog walking, playing sport etc which is nice. The problem (for me) however is move away form the water and it is nothing more than a concrete jungle. Pinellas county is essentially block after block of buildings and 4 lane roads. There is little feeling of nature or openness and to try to experience such a thing (on land) requires you to drive for at least an hour before you get out of the Bay Area sprawl. Once outside of Tampa Bay I find Florida environmentally uninteresting. I used to love areas in the UK like the Peak and the Lake District, The Yorkshire Dales and the South Coast (Dorset/Sussex). Florida appears for the most part to be flat and either forested/impassable, or developed providing little sensory exhilaration Of course there are wonderful beaches here, but I'm not much of a beach lover, nor do I like the Florida summer heat that makes me sweat like a paedo in a Wendy house.

I struggle with some of the attitude that seems prevalent here, which I'm lead to believe isn't representative of the whole of the US. It seems to be very much, all about me, drill the pristine coast for oil so I can keep my big engined car and don't trust Obama. Religion appears to be in your face everywhere, which is fine, I never really paid that much attention to religion in Britain, yet people rarely seem to practice what the preach and it is actually making me physically dislike religions, which is worrying. It seems that for every intelligent person there are 50 thick as sh*t others waiting to do something retarded right in front of you. It is regularly reported in the Press that the Bay area is just about the worst in the country for driving standards, which is wholly believable when you see the latest reports of self induced carnage on the roads. People here pull of incredibly stupid stuff when they get behind the wheel of their behemoths and you can guarantee on any one journey that at least one person will nearly kill you.

The homeless are rife here, which I find a shame but accept it is probably worse than most places due to the warm weather. You see people begging an almost any major junction or intersection which is a little soul destroying, but what gets me is that it isn't just the homeless there, the majority are people with newly laundered clothes, bright white Nikes, texting on their Google phones standing there with cardboard signs asking for cash… THE NERVE OF IT!!! Mental heath also seems to have a lot to be desired in these parts. Maybe it is too much sun, but it is not uncommon to stumble across people talking to themselves, having strange body/facial ticks and doing completely random stuff or coming up to you and starting conversations that are neither coherent nor desired.

I have ties to the area. I have family here (sister and family who actually introduced me to my wife), and they are stuck in the area due to work visas, however they have a green card app in progress and expect it to be complete within 2 to 3 years, at which point it is likely they will leave the area too, with the PNW as a consideration for them. My wife has 1 good friend here, most of her friends and family are in Tallahassee which is 5 hours drive north so we don't see them regularly. She is however in a Band that means an awful lot to her and I'd hate for her to leave.

I have few hobbies here, partly due to money, partly due to failed motivation. I used to Scuba Dive, ride a Motorbike, work on my car (not in a chav kind of way), enjoyed Photography of nature and landscapes, walking/hiking, visiting historical sites and boating. Some of those would be well suited to here, others are not for reasons of environment, weather and self preservation (motorbike).

My wife is similar to me. She enjoys nature and the countryside. She is liberally minded and mainly democratic in her thinking (The thought of McCain/Palin the White House was enough for her to want to move to England for 4 years). She is however happy here and whilst understanding of my feelings, has no desire to move. While the FL summer is too hot for her she also hates the cold. Anything below 50 is in her mind "Arctic like" and most undesirable. She does however enjoy the rain and loved the Lake District when we went there in the snow. She works from home as a web developer, and while we haven't directly approached her employer about a move further afield, it seems likely that keeping her job would be no problem apart from having to work to eastern time while living out west. She has lived in many places in the US and her favorite of the lot was Southern California. She liked the open-mindedness of many there and the perfect weather.

I said this wasn't a moan, but I'm sure it has come across as such. I really have let it all come out. Of course I don't expect anywhere to be a utopia, for anywhere to be just like England or for all of my gripes to be washed away. I would however like to see an improvement in quality of life.

So, why am I considering Seattle? Well from what I have read here and from other sources, Washington State, west of the Cascades anyway, is relatively Liberal in its thinking, making me feel I would identify more to the area and people. Seattle is a major populous from which to source jobs, with a good amount tech industry behind it. I know moving there won't get me a job, but a fresh market with different key industries may help. The weather offers seasons, which I have missed dearly, but not the kind of extreme cold that much of the US suffers in the winter. Sure it rains in the Winter, but neither my wife or I mind that. Snow can of course be found up in the mountains in the winter if wanted. Summers are I believe quite dry and pleasant, again without being extreme. What excites me the most is the geography of the area. The Cascades and Olympic national park appear to offer some wonderful opportunities or outdoor activities and are close enough to enjoy at weekends through camping/hiking. While Seattle isn't on the Pacific coast, it does have Puget Sound which offers the opportunity to be on or near a good sized body of water that has access to the ocean. Something that is important to both of us. I may even think about getting back on a bike considering the scenery that could be experienced on a long ride and the more agreeable summer climate (providing people drive a bit safer up there). Finally Seattle is actually very similar in flight times from London as Tampa is, meaning it makes little difference for trips home or for guests to come and see us. Getting to Tallahassee isn't quite as simple as a 5 hour drive though. If my wife can keep her job then the most we have to lose is the costs of moving up there.

So I have covered, best I can, how I feel about things and how I think a move might help. Now I'd like some opinions from those with more experience what you think about it all. Am I kidding myself? Do I have some valid points? What points are pure fiction generated by my new set of rose tinted glasses (made in Seattle)? What haven't I thought of? Over to you… if you are still with me after such an essay.

Thanks.

WARPed

Jesus! That is a long post! Didn't look that big in Word! Sorry.

Burn1911

Hello - From Seattle.... I have Never been to Florida - so really can't compare state to state - however from my understanding they are worlds apart scenery wise!! I did watch Animal Cops Miami the other night, and it was all about "pit viper" bites, Bermese Pythons and Diamond back rattlesnakes - enough to make me move to Seattle any day oh yeah and alligators too... apparently in Florida the snakes come up through the sewer systems into the toilets, and have been known to end up in the top of high rise buildings!! OMG!!!!

Anyway I digress...
The weather here is certainly much more comparable to England, we do have 4 distinct seasons, however the snow doesn't always stay up in the mtns, last winter we measured 18ins of snow on our deck, this winter we have had but a small dusting. Last summer was hot hot hot (for round here anyway) and the summer before had more rain. The weather keeps it interesting and gives people something to talk about, other than England I have never lived anywhere else where people ALWAYS talk about the weather and are never happy, too hot - too cold - too wet - too dry - too cloudy... but as I always say - at least its not always the same!!!!

Driving - well I don't think you will find a vast improvement over here

People - I love living over here, I feel very much at home, it is a great open minded place for everyone, however that is not to say that there aren't some arrogant t**ts in Seattle too - however I think those people live all over the World... in general we have been made to feel extremely welcome and have made some wonderful friends!

I am sure others will be along soon with their views, there are a few of us out here in the PNW, there is a few threads about the PNW too!

WARPed

Thanks for your reply. I hoped for your input as one of your previous threads "Why I Don't Miss England" is one of the few that helped bring the consideration of this move to more of a reality. I really appreciate it.

Oh and so far I've not had a Snake in my bog.

Burn1911

I was just about to post a link to that thread, it is just my opinion though - I don't expect everyone to be as happy as I am living here - infact we meet many people who are astounded that we prefer here to England. I guess we just got lucky that this area suits our lifestyle and we are both happy!

It is a spectacular part of the world, I spend many days in the summer looking out the window at Mt Rainier and thinking how lucky I am, if you like the outdoors you can't go far wrong round here!

Maybe you should do a recce trip up here, come in the middle of Spring when the grass is really green, all the trees are in bloom and the rhoddies are flowering and in case Meauxna is reading this visit Portland and the Oregon coast too that will really blow your mind - scenery overload!!!!

meauxna

thank god for small favors, yeah?

Thoughts: based on what you write, esp about attitudes, you'd probably really like it up this way (I'm in Portland which is culturally/geographically similar).
Certainly way more high tech opportunities.
Tons more in the 'creative class'... wife might find more like-mindeds to vibe with.
No shortage of bands to play with!
The homeless situation might be worse than where you are. There's long stories on the 'why' of care for the mentally ill, also, but mostly, states shut the hospitals for these folks and have turfed them out on their own.

You acclimate to the weather inside of a year.
Flights to FL are cheap.
We has great scuba diving up here too!


edit after reading Burns' last post.. yeah, come in the spring and you're hooked for good!

WARPed

Thanks for the reply meauxna. Do you mean more Tech jobs in Portland than Seattle, or more than in Tampa?

I noticed your comment on Scuba in the previously mentioned thread by Burn1911. I'd never considered diving around that coast until then. Of course I need to get a job to buy back all my gear first! Do you mean ocean or lake diving? Is there a mixture of sites, or mainly one type kelp forests/wrecks? Any reefs that far north?

$230 for a round trip ticket in late May. Good time to visit? We'd probably only have 4 full days there if we could make it.

My wife is highly creative but isn't finding the industry around here too good. She had to give up trying to work freelance due to current times.

meauxna

More tech jobs in Seattle than Tampa, maybe even more in Portland than Tampa? (it's a little tight here right now, but there *are* jobs, specific kinds of jobs).
Seattle is larger in population, and more immigrant-diverse (altho 'Hi!' to the Brit couple I saw in Ikea last night.. yes, you stand out as foreigners, and looked miserable! )

The diving in Washington, I have said before, is among the most beautiful on the Continental US. I like it better than Florida, but I do like warm water better given a choice...
If you pull up a map of the state and have a look, you'll see that there is a ton of ocean diving that is very well protected (in Oregon, if you miss your tide, you're on the way to Japan). Now for training, most go in the Puget Sound, that big inlet thingie between the Olympic Penn & the mainland. It's a big muddy bottom (900' deep!) but beautiful in its own way. Good for spearfishing, crabbing & other harvesting.
But, when I lived up in Bellingham (up by the border there) there is NO shortage of fantastic beach dives.. the state parks are set up for divers with rinse stations etc. And while no reefs, the rocky structure of the coast makes for some great environments and the colder water gives fantastic viz. Great colors, different species and it's mostly a matter of having the right gear (I never certified for dry suit but people who go a lot do.. otherwise, 7mil suit with rubber seals, much like diving in the UK).
The other special certification to get here is local--reading tide tables. Because of the islands off shore, the current is fierce, and you have to plan your dive times carefully.
No kelp (California for that) and there's probably a wreck or two. At any rate, no shortage of other divers, facilities, clubs etc.. I was a solo diver when I lived up there and always found people to go with.

Late May will be beautiful and flowery, and maybe rainy. We've had such great weather this year, who knows?!
It's only a 3 hour drive down to Portland if you want to see both areas. Cost of living will be higher in the city proper, of either, but the burbs can be just as job-worthy, so look around.

See what I mean about the flights? It costs the same to go to San Francisco from here!

nettlebed

Actually, Spokane is quite liberal as well, but that is the exception in Eastern Washington.

There is definitely a lot of IT stuff here: MS, Amazon.com, Google, Real, plus a lot of other companies that employ techs as well, like Boeing. Starbucks, Costco, etc.
I can identify with all of this: a previous employer offered to sponsor me for a GC in San Diego. My reaction was "Hell, no! The weather is TOO boring."

Western Washington weather is pretty much perfect for me. I've been here eight years and still love it. Right now the cherry trees are in blossom, other trees are just coming out with that lush pale green, and the new shoots are just coming up in the rushes in Lake Washington. Beautiful, and the only place I know more lovely in the springtime is the Chilterns.

One if the best aspects of the region, AFAIAC.
Someone has done his homework: most people think it is, even though there is a 2500m mountain range in between Seattle and the Pacific. Seattle drivers are a bit crazy, but not TOO dangerous. It's also a lot closer to Hawai'i.

Missed another couple of positive points:

1. Close to Vancouver, BC: one of my favorite cities in NA.
2. (Relatively) close to some of the most spectacular scenery in NA (Glacier, Yellowstone, Bryce, Zion, etc.)
3. Close to Meauxna.

I love it here after eight years, and am loving it more each year.

WARPed

Many thanks again meauxna. I'm Adv Open Water, with specialties in Nitrox, Deep Diving and Dry Suit Diving. Although my training dives were in a grotty Peterborough Gravel Pit in 40 degree water wearing only a 5mm full body wet suit, by choice I used to dive the Red Sea in February with full dry suit, hood and a woolly bear underneath! I like to be warm. The rocky coast sounds fantastic. I find sandy bottoms a little dull!

I very much doubt we could afford city living, but as mentioned in my original post I'm used to commuting. And quite frankly would just be pleased to have a job!

nettlebed

Eastside suburbs are more expensive than Seattle in general. North and south are more affordable, and public transport can be good.

Bob

Can't really help with the WA thing, but certainly think it's worth going for...and if your open to other areas, Boston might be worth considering for a tech person as apparently it's one of the big boom areas and there are a lot of jobs for experienced people.

Also get seasons, kind of, and close to Maine, Vermont etc to do all that walking the hills and scenic stuff if you want.

Good hub to get around too and good uni networks if you want to go down that route.

Burn1911

Sounds like a good time to visit - as Mo said the weather could go either way but the environment etc will be in full bloom, plus even if it is raining it won't be cold.

It was meant to rain today but I look outside and the sun is out and I can't wait to get out of the office!!!

Hubby did some diving the first time he lived over here back in the early 90's (me I am too scared of the deep dark waters... bit like snakes in the bog ugggh) anyway he reckons the most frightening thing around here are the "Rat fish" is that true Mo?? he said they kept attacking his flashlight when he did a night dive

WARPed

Nettlebed. Thanks for expanding with some individual observations. I had not considered the scenery further afield (blinded by images of the Cascades etc) or proximity to Vancouver. I knew they were there but they hadn't factored in this decision. Good points.

WARPed

Thanks Bob. When I used to think of a move to the US I was really only interested in the New England area, Boston in particular. Florida wasn't in the running until I met my wife. It was just a nice place to visit my family on vacation! Unfortunately my wife has a severe aversion to very cold weather which MA seems to get it's fair share of, although admittedly Boston seems to have that tempered a little by its coastal proximity. I keep suggesting it but think I'm flogging a dead horse now. This obviously has to be something we are both in agreement about.