Move Offer
 

Hi All,

I just wanted to gauge a few second opinions on the offer I received from the company, personally I think it is pretty/very good offer but thought I'd reach out for a few second opinions in case I am missing something obvious;

• Salary – On par with expectations inc health & dental
• Holiday – 25 days + US national holidays
• Notice Period – 6 months for both parties (I think the security of employment far outweighs the complications for the long notice period if it look for jobs elsewhere in the future)
• Visa costs – Covered
• Shipping costs – 1 container
• Flights – Covered (economy)
• Accommodation – 3 months paid accommodation on arrival
• Optional;
  • Pre move flights + 1 week accommodation (Basically if we want to fly out for 1 week a couple of weeks/months prior to the move to look at living area's and locations - not sure this is needed as we have a pretty good idea now - Kids not included which is fine)
  • One family return flight to UK per annum (economy)
  • For 2 years – Return flights to the UK if we decide to move back

Appreciate any comments & help,

Re: Move Offer
 

What's the number? Your expectations might be way off, you are asking for a second opinion after all.

Decent.

Would check if this is actually contractual and enforceable.

They would have to pay for these, so not really a benefit.

Fine

Standard.
Economy a bit shit.

Decent.

What does optional mean? Do you get them or not?

I would say it's a pretty bog standard offer subject to the salary being reasonable. Not terrible, but certainly not in "very good" territory.

They've clearly done a bit of padding by listing visa costs as part of the offer as if it was a benefit to you. That's just an unavoidable hiring cost to them. A bit like saying "we will give you a computer to work on".

Re: Move Offer
 

In generally I'd say it's pretty good. Agree that your salary expectations may or may not be right. I generally say double the UK number and change the sign to $ for approximate equivalence (e.g. 100k GBP is about the same quality of life as 200k USD). But it also depends on location. If you were making 100k in Leeds and they put you on 200k in NYC then you'll take a big dip in qol.

Holiday is quite generous by US standards.

I am very surprised at the 6 month notice period. Most people are employed at will which means they can fire you for no reason and you can leave with minimal notice. People generally give 2 weeks as a courtesy. I have seen this even for relatively senior execs.

Re: Move Offer
 

Honestly I am not going to give my salary as its naturally a little private, I'm sure you'll appreciate that, but it is on par with similar jobs in the area.

Notice period - Will be contracted for both parties.

Visa costs - They haven't listed as a benefit but when looking at other posts it always gets mentioned so easier to nip it in the bud.

Economy - Agreed but not a deal breaker

Optional - Means they have offered them and it is up to us whether we want to include them or not. The obvious answer is yes we would.

Re: Move Offer
 

Appreciate the comments so thank you, salary I understand but it is comparable with similar jobs in the market sector. Obviously we would want more (who wouldn't?) but it puts me in the 75th percentile so we are fairly comfortable with that part.

The notice period is to protect both parties, they don't want to be left out to dry if we just jump ship as soon as we get green cards etc and it also protects me that they cannot just change their mind at the flip of coin. We discussed it as a mutually beneficial position.

The holiday we are lucky with as they offer the increased holiday as a perk to try and keep staff retention and higher new employees. It's also a little bit of the European mindset (UK HQ) and generally in our field holiday within the US is increasing.

Re: Move Offer
 

I agree with the others, esp PP'ed - the salary depends on where you currently are, where you'll be living in the US, as well as what your current living situation is, as well an numerous other factors in terms of what you need and expect - schools, type of home, length of commute, etc.

All that said, I wouldn't recommend moving anywhere in the US for less thsn $150k, or a high cost area (NY, DC, Boston, LA, SF, among others) for less than $250k. And I've been using those numbers for a while, and they really are bare minimums so $175k & $300k are probably more realistic given recent housing cost inflation, though both may be reduced if your wife has a realistic chance of working too. Though bear in mind that childcare/ after-school care is absurdly expensive.

Also what do you mean by "a container". A "standard container" is usually considered to be 20ft, which is half of a standard UK ar-tic, which is 40ft long, and more common size of container used for commercial shipping.

A 40ft container is more appropriate for a 3-4 bed home and a family with children, otherwise you'll be do a lot of clearing out and disposing of stuff ahead of your move. We almost filled a 20ft container with the things from our 2bed, 70m², terraced home in London. We had a fair number of books and records, but there were just two of us and so there were no toys.

Re: Move Offer
 

I understand you not wanting to give your exact salary, but I'd at least tell people whereabouts you're moving to and how many in the family so they can give you an idea of what salary would give you a good standard of living. 75% percentile may not be as good as you think it is, I'd actually say that's quite low for somebody moving internationally and the US is incredibly expensive. If it's a high cost area then I'd use porkedpie 's guide but triple it personally. I'm in Boston and it's crazy expensive here, a recent study said $320k was the salary needed for a family of four to have a 'reasonable standard of living' and I actually think that's a bit low. Madness! But if you're in a cheaper area then Pulaski 's $150-175k is probably about right for a family.

I assume this is a permanent move? So your package is ok but I'd say ok rather than good, the economy flights are a bit of a worry as what else are they skimping on - i.e. what are they giving you for the 3 months accommodation? Would be worth finding out before accepting just to make sure it's not a grotty one bed hotel room! If it was a fixed term assignment then you'd expect a lot more.

Other things to consider - car to start with, even if just for a month for you to get around. Relocation agent/realtor. Taxes done for at least the first couple of years. Check the details of the health insurance (you say health and dental but could still be paying a large amount each month, check it's 100% covered or find out what your likely costs are if not). Green card sponsorship if you do want to stay (get it in writing and make sure it covers incidentals i.e. extra vaccinations required). Kids should be included in your recce trip particularly if they're school age so they can look at schools (as should food for that week). Longer housing (may take you much longer to find a rental than 3 months and temporary accommodation will be expensive). Any pets to transport? If so, them as well. And relocation, in case things don't work out. Them paying to relocate your family if they make you redundant or similar is essential as it could easily cost $40-50k and the notice period is likely unenforceable (just Google to see if your state is an 'at will' state which means they can get rid of you with no notice required at all). Lump sum to cover incidentals i.e. having to buy new electronics - £10k is fairly standard, make sure it's grossed up so you don't pay tax on it. Excess luggage paid for (you may need more bags when moving if everything else has been shipped in a container a few weeks previously). Travel to/from your home country should be excluded from your vacation allowance if you're getting flights paid for.

Good luck.

Re: Move Offer
 

It's an anonymous forum...

Salary probably the most important part of the offer and if you won't share it, nobody can give you much advice about whether the offer is a good one. How do you know it's on par with similar jobs in the area? Where are you getting that information?

Re: Move Offer
 

But as another way of doing it, OP could tell us how many in his family, where they're going to, and what kind of lifestyle they want (i.e. small apartment or large detached house, skiing every weekend or not, etc). Then people in the area can suggest a suitable salary so he knows if the offer meets that or not.

Re: Move Offer
 

Yes that would work also

Re: Move Offer
 

Car rental for first couple of months would be extremely useful.... you'll need a car no matter where you go and having to get one immediately is something you should avoid if able.

You mention flights back if YOU pack it in, but you should get an agreement that company will ship you and your belongings back if THEY pull the plug within say 18 months.

Re: Move Offer
 

What is the salary? Without that not even worth a second thought

Re: Move Offer
 

Bear in mind that median personal income (not household income) for those working full time in the US is currently around $65k, which assuming a roughly normal distribution and that few people earn less than $20k, puts the 95th percentile at around $100k, and there is nowhere in the entire US that I would recommend trying to live on $100k as an expat transplant with family.

If you mean 75th percentile for your role, that is about where I was hired over 20 years ago, and I later came to realise that I had been lumped in with a lot of underpaid coworkers to produce that 75th percentile statistic. You can prove anything with statistics, and 75th percentile doesn't mean much, because you're not paying your rent, car payment or grocery bill with a percentile.

Re: Move Offer
 

This is a good alternative. We already know that whatever number the OP says, someone is going to say "I wouldn't eat breakfast for less than $400K"...

Re: Move Offer
 

At this point I'm wondering what the OP expects as what we've been asked to comment on is a list of about half a dozen things, each of them marked "covered". :unsure:

Not only do we not know what salary has been offered, we don't know where he will be living/working, how many kids he has, whether his wife is planning on working (or what she does and whether working will be possible i.e. does she need a US license to work, e.g. in a medical occupation, or as a beautician/ hair stylist, which doesn't require a license in the UK, but absolutely does in most US states). About all we have is a short list of factors that the OP apparently this are good enough, so who are we to argue? :unsure:

As has been stated many times on this forum, to get good information you have to give good information. There is so much information we could give the OP, but he needs to give us a bit more to work with! :nod:

At this point I feel I have given as much as I care to give unless/ until the OP gives us a bit more context for the advice.

At the moment I'm inclined to say "Yup, looks good enough to me", and move on. :unsure:

Re: Move Offer
 

The OP received good feedback. They do not care to share salary or location and there is no need to do so. I certainly would not share that information on a public forum either anonymously or in general. The point has been made to be sure that the salary will enable them to meet their lifestyle. They seem to have done their initial research, are satisfied, and have some good pointers to do more research which they no doubt are more than capable of doing without sharing their own personal details.

The consensus seems to be that it is a decent offer, subject to the salary being sufficient to meet lifestyle needs. Improvements would be to add a car for the first 3 months, negotiate attaining a green card and a repatriation package if the position terminates for whatever reason, and tax assistance for the first two years (to which I would add tax assistance prior to the move because sometimes there are issues that need to be addressed prior to arrival in the US). In lieu of a container I might negotiate a lump sum to purchase new stuff over here. Stuff brought over from the UK doesn’t always work here, not just electrically but looks out of place, is the wrong size, etc. Personal stuff and kids stuff, sure, bring that, but kids are surprisingly adaptable and may not need as much as you think they do.

The OP may well be a high flying executive that can demand business class travel and all sorts of other perks. On the other hand they may be someone starting out in their career, thrilled to have an offer enabling them to live in the US albeit modestly, or anywhere in between. Sometimes I feel like this forum creates the impression that it is impossible to live in the US unless on a high salary and that is simply not the case. Plenty of people across the country live happily on household income of less than $100K. Not everyone needs, wants or can afford luxury cars, private schools, fine dining, expensive accommodation, etc.. Definitely point out what things cost, and provide factual information but let people make their own decisions as to whether their salary is sufficient rather than telling them cannot possibly survive on less than whatever amount.

Re: Move Offer
 

This was the OP a few years ago:

https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-.../#post12722189

Re: Move Offer
 

I'm probably one of those that you think created that impression, with my comment above about the $320k figure I mentioned being too low for a family! I realise it sounds crazy, and as I said, I'm in a really expensive area so mine is definitely an extreme view, but our basics total approx $15k a month. That's just rent, utility bills, car, grocery shopping, insurances etc. No private school fees, no healthcare costs, no mobile phone bills, no cable tv, no fine dining - or dining out at all - and 1 car which is a VW. Our house here is far smaller than our one in the UK was, yet costs three times as much (and we lived in one of the most expensive parts of the UK). So $180k a year is what we would need to earn after tax just to live here and doesn't include any money for holidays, days out, eating out, savings, or even clothes.

Of course people live on less than $100k, but the question is is it worth moving internationally for and what kind of lifestyle would that give them compared to what they've come from? People living on $100k probably have the advantages of things like a good credit rating, or US driving history, to keep costs down. Those things can really bump the costs up as a new immigrant to the US.

But until we know the OP's area, it's pretty much impossible to advise him/her. I just hope it's not Boston/NYC/LA/SF, or if it is, that the salary is far higher than $100k. :lol:

Re: Move Offer
 

Of course there is a need to do so.

OP has asked whether their offer is a good one.

How are people supposed to answer that if OP won’t share what the offer actually is?

Re: Move Offer
 

Thx for sharing - that is useful info.

I have, in the past, from time to time, posted a "draft budget", usually linked to locations in the South East US (Virginia to Texas), listing the expenses you mentioned, and showing how you needed a barest minimum of $60k after tax ($90k gross) to make living boarderline possible - around ten years ago!

By five years ago that was $80K after tax ($110k gross), and I am sure today would need to be $110k after tax in most areas ($150k+ gross), not least because the cost of renting a modern or modernized 3-bed home has doubled to over $2,000/mth, and the cost of groceries is now running at around $300/person/mth (including children). As you said there are various other fixed, unavoidable costs before you even have money for "non-essentials" such as retirement savings, dining out, flying to the UK, clothes, holidays, etc. Today, I believe, without revisiting and updating my previous budgets in detail, that the target for "modest but comfortable living" (some dining out, a trip back to the UK each year, some retirement savings) would be around $150k after tax ($210k gross). And much higher in DC, greater NYC/ northern NJ, or CT & MA.

Re: Move Offer
 

Cheers for the comments mate,

Thanks for understanding on the pay point & until now (and it seems it has spiralled further down the thread) no one had asked me where we are going, instead just a blunt "what are you been paid". Anyway, family of 4 (kids 1 & 3), going to the outer suburbs of Orlando, we like Winter Garden/Horizon West area's and have already spent some time there in the past.

The 3 months accommodation is a 3 bed house (or they have offered a 3 bed apartment if we prefer) in a gated community (Championsgate or similar for any familiar with the the Orlando area), car hire is included for this 3 month period then that flicks over to our responsibility but as long as there is something happening regards us getting our own and it is just a waiting game they are happy to extended to a reasonable timeframe.

Filling taxes - Thanks for that not something considered, so need to visit that topic.

Health Insurance - Again thanks, will look into further.

Visa's includes up to a Green Card if we decide to take that step as well.

1 week trip - So we suggested not including/taking the kids in the 1 week trip, I get some wont approve and each to their own, but they aren't yet at school age and they have also spent 8 weeks their late last year.

Regards the notice period, thanks for pointing out. Florida is an at will state however reading sources online suggests a contract can still be put in place which is enforceable. I'll reach out to some legal folk.

Re: Move Offer
 

Tbf bud, no-one had actually asked any of those questions, it was just a blunt "what are you been paid" which I just politely explained I didn't want to share, ironically without actually knowing where we were going the pay bit is irrelevant anyway, and then it spiralled.

Anyway, 2 young kids not yet school age, wife is a teacher but we know there is some local hurdles to overcome and it isn't a walk in job the minute we land.

If there is anything else you think would be useful to know to give good advice then fire away and I'll answer openly (bar about my salary lol!).

Re: Move Offer
 

We were in a very similar situation, kids were aged 4 and 6. We left the kids with parents for our week trip and it worked great as there was a lot to do, looking at schools, daycare, places where we would want to rent etc. I also spent time meeting the folks I’d be working with and reviewing the projects I would be working on. We decided to make the move after that week’s visit, and it worked great for us all. (Our move was to the Houston area.)

Re: Move Offer
 

Really appreciate the comments, the tax assistance has popped up a few times and caught us off guard. We have also been doubting if we'd need a full container when we go through what we will / wont take so the lump sum is a good shout.

The car hire is also included for those 1st 3 months and the Green Card is part of the Visa agreement.

Re: Move Offer
 

The good offer question is about the relocation package in general bud, I also hadn't been asked anything other than my salary and once asked I gave info on all them.

I didn't realise not telling people what you earnt would cause such a drama.

Re: Move Offer
 

Lol, welcome to BE. There will be someone ready to tear you down a notch whether its considered a lot or not enough :D Sometimes just saying "Florida" will earn you a rebuke haha.
It's the same with retirement income in the US as well... there is such a wide spectrum of what an individual would consider enough/not enough and so many factors to consider in this instance too.
On the face of it, i thought your relo offer looked good.

Re: Move Offer
 

No worries. I get not taking the kids if they’re younger and not school age.

Re: salary, using the same calculator I mentioned above (https://smartasset.com/data-studies/...mfortably-2024) gives $212k for a family of 4 in Orlando, whether that’s accurate or not I have no idea. Interestingly it’s pretty much bang on Pulaski´s $210k estimate though.

And lastly, if Orlando is where you’re heading and likely to be staying longer term, I’d search the forum for info and opinions on schools there.

Good luck.

Re: Move Offer
 

Appreciate the comment mate,

I've already had the "Florida, why would you want to go there? It's not like going on holiday", correct but also 22m people live there so maybe it just doesn't fit some peoples tastes and does to others.

Anyway appreciate the comment

Re: Move Offer
 

Thanks bud, we are fairly comfortable with the salary and the location that's one bit we have done a lot of research into, the inclusions in the offer is our main grey area.

Re: Move Offer
 

Thank you for mentioning that, :o but I would like to point out that my off-the-cuff estimate was made without reference to the smartasset cost estimator, or any other estimation tool, nor even to a spreadsheet of my own. It was based on my recollection of my prior budget posts on BE, my own experience of living and working in NC for over 20 years, and how the cost of living here has escalated in recent years.

Re: Move Offer
 

You never know where the next bump is coming from -- my electricity bill went up $100 this month! No, I didn't suddenly start using vast amounts of power; there were a few minor increases in supply, transmission, and delivery costs, but the big bounce came from a "public benefits charge" which is apparently mandatory and was almost $55!

Re: Move Offer
 

That sounds like what the power utility is allowed to charge customers in general to recover bad debts of people on low income who cannot afford to pay their bill and who are at risk of being disconnected.

Re: Move Offer
 

Correct, and it soared this month--the utility's phones were apparently ringing off the hook! This is what it states on my co.'s site: This portion includes costs mandated by the state and federal government for financial assistance and energy efficiency programs, purchasing renewable and carbon-free electricity, and funding solar and electric vehicle incentives to help make it easier to take advantage of clean energy options.

Re: Move Offer
 

If schools are in your future, I would recommend searching out good school areas. You would need to be in the catchment area for any children to get in to them. Ay least that's what happens in our area.

Re: Move Offer
 

AFAIK all US states run their schools on a strict "catchment area" basis, with only a few exceptions allowed. "Charter schools" (quasi-independent, direct-funded schools, paid for by the state, not the county in which they are located) are one such exception and are often extremely popular where they are allowed, leading to lotteries to decide which new children to admit. The motivation for founding charter schools often seems to be to allow savvy parents to opt their children out of county-controlled schools (which are often under-funded and poorly run) without needing to pay for private education.

Re: Move Offer
 

Make sure that the cost of anything in the relocation package that’s considered taxable income is “grossed up” so that your employer effectively pays the tax on it. Otherwise you’ll have a nice tax liability on some of it (e.g. the three months of rent etc).

Re: Move Offer
 

Well you'll have the tax liability anyway, but you can only spend about 2/3 of the value (or a bit more if there is no state income tax), the other third you hold back to pay the state and federal income taxes.

Re: Move Offer
 

We are lucky in my area of Tennessee, possibly due to TVA power. Our total electric bill is almost never at $100. The past two very hot months $95 and $97 totals.

Re: Move Offer
 

Certainly possible in the employer gives the transferee a big pot of money for the relocation. But if the employer pays directly for something (again, e.g. three months rent) then they don't have that option. Eitheer way, tax liability is something the OP should be well aware of. To me a gross up to avoid any tax liability is one of the most important aspects of a relocation package.

Re: Move Offer
 

Ah, I mistakenly thought you were originally talking about the employer giving the transferee money to pay for things, not just picking up the tab. :o