meauxna

I don't know about 'wise'..

Reading personal experiences suggests that it's even harder for a TCN (Third Country National) to get a visa abroad.. IE a student from Nigeria applying in London faces a very difficult application. Nothing like a rubber stamp. And, I'm fuzzy on when he left school ( a while ago).

What I've read about TIDE doesn't indicate that his visa should have been cancelled for the entry. It's meant to cross-check with other intellegence.. a big holding place for random information. (and, a complaint from one relative can only be given *so* much credibility. Would you want your visa canceled because your mum got the 'ump with your move and called the Embassy w/some bogus info?)

celticgrid

There's an implication there that, if I am investigated today and given a 2-year visa there is an assumption that I cannot have a significant change of world view in that 2 years.

In general a case could be made that time limits for visas need to be reduced. "Could"....not "Should". (In this case, from the facts I've read, the visa should have been cancelled, but that is a separate point.)

Just an interesting thought that doesn't yet quite know where it is going, but which is set free here to see if anyone else has a direction for it...

nettlebed

Thanks for this thoughtful and smart post. It highlights the need for smart, adaptive security that is behavior-based, not just information-based (though timely access to relevant data - e.g., this guy's dad's warning is a key part).

This means alert, intelligent people watchers like Diana Dean, not just people who follow a set of rules blindly like the TSA operatives we have all encountered at the airports.

meauxna

Oh, not to imply that people don't change (at least, I didn't mean to imply that), but he wasn't rubber stamped through.
The visa validity is an interesting subject though, because B visas are mostly given w/10 year validity and newbies might get a one year, or otherwise limited one. 2 years tells me he checked out pretty well.

What did you read that makes you think the visa should've been cancelled? You can PM me if you don't want to add it to this thread. I haven't been following all the stories and I'm just curious now.

lansbury

There are reasons that they must follow rules and are not given discretionary powers of what to allow or accept. Not the least of which it stops them from being coerced into allowing items through. One of the people thought at one time to be the most serious threat to UK airline security worked at a UK airport, would you have liked them to be able to decided what was acceptable or not.

nettlebed

My "not just" was not meant to be exclusive. I think excluding tazers and pistols, etc., from airline cabins is a great idea. Screening is necessary, but the list of excluded items is too long, IMHO.

You also raise another interesting point that has not been raised yet in the two active threads, as far as I remember: insiders with malicious intent (or without an adequate commitment to decent security) are probably the greatest threat there is - in ALL environments where security of any sort is essential.

chartreuse

Yep.

Every time somebody mentions El Al, I want to yell "That's because they do it properly, you twat!"

tonrob

Can't karma you again so soon but am PM'ing some sprouts in your direction...

Ash UK/US

So today my girls and I went to the mall (20 min drive from home) as we leave I ask them if they need to go to the toilet, no is the answer from both, 10 min in the car and I hear from the back seat 'I need to go potty', me 'OK we will be home soon' her 'No I need to go right now, I really really need to go now'!

1) When I fly in Feb if 1 of my girls say they need to use the bathroom within that last hour, what I am supossed to say, no, you will have to wet yourself in the seat?

2) You will have adults watching the time and have a mad rush just before the last hour of people using the loo.

avanutria

Regarding cancelling the visa - it's not checked until arrival at the US entry point, correct? So he would have had no problem getting on the plane. My DH's visa wasn't looked at at all in Heathrow.

nettlebed

When was that? Every time I have flown to the US in the last eight years or so the airline has checked that I am eligible to enter the US when I checked in for my US flight.

That accounts for the popularity of airports that have US immigration before you board the 'plane, such as Toronto or Dublin (? or is it Shannon? - I have never flown from Eire) with people whose eligibility to enter the US is in doubt.

dunroving

That's been my experience also. In fact, back in 1994 I was refused check-in to an AA flight in Manchester, destination Atlanta, due to an expired student visa (long story).

avanutria

Interesting. My British DH has flown to the US about 7 or 8 times between 2003 and this month, and I've been with him for all but the first time. Every time but the last time was the visa waiver programme - they didn't want to see anything, including whether or not he'd completed the ESTA stuff. This last time he was proudly trying to show off his IR-1 visa to everyone but again no one was bothered. The only guy who wanted to see it was the guy at US immigration on the other end.

PS Dunno about Shannon, but Dublin does have pre-flight immigration clearance; I've done it.

tonrob

Looks like some of the madness might be easing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/29/us...y.html?_r=1&hp

Unless you're flying in from Canada possibly...

celticgrid

So, what check is carried out at the airport? If they simply examine the passport then what good is it if the visa is notionally cancelled? Presumably if you have iffy intentions and get a letter asking you to send in your passport so they can overstamp the visa, you are unlikely to do so.

Does the airline, at point of departure, do an online check of the visa validity? (I've no idea...genuine question for my education for today!)

Clearly, the perfect solution is for all security to be (a) perfect and (b) carried out before boarding. Once I'm sat on that plane, hurtling through the sky, I'd like surprises to be minimized please. So, I'll put up with extra delays at the front end in order to be treated in a civilized way once aboard - if the treatment of air passengers can, in any way, be described as civilized...