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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by SEL_boy
(Post 8203629)
It seems to me that there was a period a few years ago when they became more keen on looking at your visa at check-in, because a rule changed that meant that if an airline flew you in to a destination with a bum visa, the airline was responsible for getting you back to your departure point. So they tried make sure that never happened.
Originally Posted by SEL_boy
(Post 8203629)
In fact the last couple of times I've flown I've checked in online, and apart from the initial entry to security where they look at your passport, nobody has looked at anything but the boarding pass I printed myself at home. I could have given it to anybody in the departure lounge and they would have no idea who was really on the plane...
Said experts also point out (as you do) that it doesn't work. |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by chartreuse
(Post 8203639)
That's why many security experts claim that the whole ID checking thing is more a matter of revenue protection on the airlines part, preventing folks from giving non-refundable tickets that they can't use to others.
Said experts also point out (as you do) that it doesn't work. Bruce Schneier Website article |
Re: More TSA Security
The "no fly" list is a joke... its like a bobby saying "Stop!... or I'll say Stop! again."
as I've said before, airline 'security' is not about safety... its about PR. |
Re: More TSA Security
lets face it the world has gone mad.. Years ago we had to go around our cars with a mirror on a stick - still cars got blown up. People put razor blades in the collars of their shirts. Now we have women who strap bombs to their babies in strollers> Willing to sacrafice their kids in the name of whatever it is they believe in. We have young girls thinking that to become a suicide bomber is an honour! So what do we do sit back and let it happen and just accept it. Or do we do something about it? If we do something about it - What?
FLight 253 has just shown us that there are people out there that will, and can. There will always be a way, were humans. Some will always make a mistake, and some will always find another way. Look at drug traffikers - swallowing condoms full of dope so as not to be detected - whats the answer. There is none! If someone wants to do something - especially a group like this bunch of nutcases then they will try, fail and try again and one day they will succeed. WE just have to make it as difficult as possible for them in the only way we know how, or can. Its inconvieniencing a lot of travellers, a lot of families but what is the alternative? planning a funeral for a loved one. The world has gone basically mad - we live in this society that is out of control. Thsi time the security list was screwed up - a system failed. But there are kids out there that are not on the list, training, living their dream of one day becoming a hero in the eyes of the nutters for a day and making our lives miserable. So were moaning and groaning about a stupid extra security precaution - they sit and laugh. For me i dont give a rats ass if I get patted down, have no luggage i want to get on a plane and I want to be able to get off it in one piece at the other end. I remember someone saying once. I would rather be four hours late in this world than four hours early in the next. If that means this BS then so be it. We live in a society where there are unfortunately no boundries. |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Deedee13
(Post 8203743)
I remember someone saying once. I would rather be four hours late in this world than four hours early in the next. If that means this BS then so be it. We live in a society where there are unfortunately no boundries.
Most of us on this thread have no probs with additional security measures that actually make sense and will actually accomplish additional levels of safety. But rules that will do nothing to protect us, ie. making you sit in your seat like a robot for the last hour of the flight, will do nothing to protect us and that is what most of us on this thread are protesting. "Give me liberty or give me death" is how I whole heartedly feel. |
Re: More TSA Security
Unfortunately this will happen again. I hope I am wrong. There were two attempts (same method) at the Twin Towers before the bizarre successful 3rd attempt. There have now been two un-successful attempts (same method, same explosive) on aircraft. Will there be a third? Personally I think there will be as they learn from their mistakes and that is and will be despite the millions of $'s already spent plus more millions to come. I am all for making it difficult for them and do not mind the harassment I get at an airport.
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Deedee13
(Post 8203743)
I remember someone saying once. I would rather be four hours late in this world than four hours early in the next. If that means this BS then so be it. We live in a society where there are unfortunately no boundries. A mate just went through Boston airport, wasn't till he got through the other side that he noticed he still had his blade attached to his keys...and I'm pretty sure double edged razor blades aren't allowed as hand luggage. What's the point in not letting a parent bring in baby formula for security when it's so easy to bring a knife on a plane? It's only worth doing if it's effective and consistently applied. |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Bob
(Post 8203796)
Unfortunately all the security is just window dressing, to be seen to be doing something when reality is that it is a waste of time.
A mate just went through Boston airport, wasn't till he got through the other side that he noticed he still had his blade attached to his keys...and I'm pretty sure double edged razor blades aren't allowed as hand luggage. What's the point in not letting a parent bring in baby formula for security when it's so easy to bring a knife on a plane? It's only worth doing if it's effective and consistently applied. |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by avanutria
(Post 8203007)
Interesting. My British DH has flown to the US about 7 or 8 times between 2003 and this month, and I've been with him for all but the first time. Every time but the last time was the visa waiver programme - they didn't want to see anything, including whether or not he'd completed the ESTA stuff. This last time he was proudly trying to show off his IR-1 visa to everyone but again no one was bothered. The only guy who wanted to see it was the guy at US immigration on the other end.
The Immigrant Visa is in the passport. If the airline check in doesn't examine it, they still don't need to. The UK passport allows him to travel on the VWP.
Originally Posted by celticgrid
(Post 8203400)
Does the airline, at point of departure, do an online check of the visa validity? (I've no idea...genuine question for my education for today!)
Originally Posted by solo-g
(Post 8203493)
Having applied for a visa in London to the USA on my Kenyan passport, I can tell you that the validity is determined by reciprocal tables that the USA has with other countries.
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by dunroving
(Post 8202954)
That's been my experience also. In fact, back in 1994 I was refused check-in to an AA flight in Manchester, destination Atlanta, due to an expired student visa (long story).
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by sunflwrgrl13
(Post 8203789)
If you well and truly feel that way, then they've won. Because of terrorists, and in the name of 'security', laws/rules are being enacted that are systematically eating away at the very freedoms that we cherish and they despise.
. Actually, the aim of the Islamist is not to terrorise us. Or laugh at self imposed impositions, it is plain and simple to kill us. If they could use WMD, they would. Hezbollah’s leader Hussein Massawi, once said: "We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you." |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Ginblossom
(Post 8204057)
Hezbollah’s leader Hussein Massawi, once said: "We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you."
Jim |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Scouse Express
(Post 8204085)
Let's just Nuke the Bastards and get it over and done with!
Jim |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by tonrob
(Post 8204274)
Nuke who? Is it possible to Nuke a religion?
Jim |
Re: More TSA Security
When two tribes go to war, a point is all that you can score.
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Ginblossom
(Post 8204057)
I wrote my Masters dissertation on the subject of this very issue. Or the wider issue which is what are the challenges facing democracies in countering terrorism.
Actually, the aim of the Islamist is not to terrorise us. Or laugh at self imposed impositions, it is plain and simple to kill us. If they could use WMD, they would. Hezbollah’s leader Hussein Massawi, once said: "We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you." What possible difference does it make to them whether they succeed or fail in actually blowing up the plane - 300 people is not a lot of people. It's the fear and chaos they cause by trying that counts. You don't need a Masters to figure that one out. There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, living on several continents. Many of them don't hate us (yet). I have plenty of friends from Iran, and they are all very pro-US. |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Steerpike
(Post 8204325)
Having written a Masters thesis does not make your argument more valid; there are plenty of people with fancy qualifications on both sides of the argument.
What possible difference does it make to them whether they succeed or fail in actually blowing up the plane - 300 people is not a lot of people. It's the fear and chaos they cause by trying that counts. You don't need a Masters to figure that one out. There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, living on several continents. Many of them don't hate us (yet). I have plenty of friends from Iran, and they are all very pro-US. |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Steerpike
(Post 8204325)
Having written a Masters thesis does not make your argument more valid; there are plenty of people with fancy qualifications on both sides of the argument.
What possible difference does it make to them whether they succeed or fail in actually blowing up the plane - 300 people is not a lot of people. It's the fear and chaos they cause by trying that counts. You don't need a Masters to figure that one out. There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, living on several continents. Many of them don't hate us (yet). I have plenty of friends from Iran, and they are all very pro-US. Where did I say all Muslims hated Americans? And you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of the war on terror. |
Re: More TSA Security
The problem I have with Ginblossom and his like is that they see everything in black and white. No mid-ground, you're with us or against us (where have we heard that before?). A remarkably similar attitude to the very people he despises.
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Brit3964
(Post 8204350)
The problem I have with Ginblossom and his like is that they see everything in black and white. No mid-ground, you're with us or against us (where have we heard that before?).
And when it comes to nihilistic extremism, you are right, because, given the capacity and capability, they would happily wipe you and me off the face of the earth. |
Re: More TSA Security
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Ginblossom
(Post 8204355)
As it happens, you guess correctly, I fully supported Bush's foreign policy.
And when it comes to nihilistic extremism, you are right, because, given the capacity and capability, they would happily wipe you and me off the face of the earth. Jim. |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Ginblossom
(Post 8204355)
As it happens, you guess correctly, I fully supported Bush's foreign policy.
And when it comes to nihilistic extremism, you are right, because, given the capacity and capability, they would happily wipe you and me off the face of the earth. |
Re: More TSA Security
This thread is a bit like watching the dullest game of tennis that was ever played....
We've covered race, religion and politics - maybe we need to spice this up with sex? |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Ginblossom
(Post 8204347)
...
And you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of the war on terror. You have yet to explain how 'force' can be used effectively against an enemy that is dispersed around the world, and how you plan to use that force in a manner that does not inspire more moderates to transition over to extremism. Look at the guy who tried to blow up the plane Friday - educated, wealthy, privileged. He could be living comfortably, eating well, having fun - but instead, he was inspired to become a martyr. How many of those 700,000 civilians killed in Iraq have brothers/sisters/uncles/cousins/children who will now become terrorists as a result of the death of their family member? To you, they are probably just 'collateral damage'; to me, they are likely sources of inspiration for people who might otherwise be pro-western.
Originally Posted by Brit3964
(Post 8204350)
The problem I have with Ginblossom and his like is that they see everything in black and white. No mid-ground, you're with us or against us (where have we heard that before?). A remarkably similar attitude to the very people he despises.
Originally Posted by Ginblossom
(Post 8204355)
As it happens, you guess correctly, I fully supported Bush's foreign policy.
Originally Posted by Ginblossom
(Post 8204355)
And when it comes to nihilistic extremism, you are right, because, given the capacity and capability, they would happily wipe you and me off the face of the earth.
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Ginblossom
(Post 8204057)
I wrote my Masters dissertation on the subject of this very issue. Or the wider issue which is what are the challenges facing democracies in countering terrorism.
Actually, the aim of the Islamist is not to terrorise us. Or laugh at self imposed impositions, it is plain and simple to kill us. If they could use WMD, they would. Hezbollah’s leader Hussein Massawi, once said: "We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you." enlighten what your root cause analysis findings outlined or you didnt get a chance to cover that strategic tool cause then you might not get the brownie points. Hezbollah problems are Israeli related. Why in the name of Molly, do they have hatred towards, the UK, Greenland, Northpole, Southpole, do they also HATE eskimos? |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by begmohsin
(Post 8204711)
In your project did you manage to find the "ROOT CAUSE" of this hatred? no homey wakes up one day and says ; oh am going to start hating all the people with big noses and freckles;
enlighten what your root cause analysis findings outlined or you didnt get a chance to cover that strategic tool cause then you might not get the brownie points. Hezbollah problems are Israeli related. Why in the name of Molly, do they have hatred towards, the UK, Greenland, Northpole, Southpole, do they also HATE eskimos? |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by chartreuse
(Post 8204716)
You know, you really should start taking your lithium again.
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Sally Redux
(Post 8204718)
How can you fight terrorism if you do not look at the causes of it?
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by tonrob
(Post 8204632)
This thread is a bit like watching the dullest game of tennis that was ever played....
We've covered race, religion and politics - maybe we need to spice this up with sex? |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Ginblossom
(Post 8204057)
the aim of the Islamist is not to terrorise us. Or laugh at self imposed impositions, it is plain and simple to kill us
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by elfman
(Post 8204883)
If their current strategy for total infidel annihilation is to have one bloke set fire to his trousers on a flight to Detroit it strikes me that they're quite a long way from mission accomplished. Yes I appreciate that we need to keep nuclear weapons out of these people's hands (same goes for certain elected leaders), etc, etc, but for me it kind of puts the overall threat in perspective.
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Re: More TSA Security
I now have to be at Brum airport 4 hours before my flight back, rather than 2. I hope the underpants bomber is getting a particularly thorough rogering by Bubba and his pork sword at this moment in time :frown:
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Re: More TSA Security
We flew back from LHR yesterday with Continental.
Flight was at 11.40 am, but we arrived at 9 am after dropping the hire-car off first. Having checked in the night before, the bag-drop was a doddle. Security was fine - didn't even need to take shoes off, but they were insisting on liquids in a clear bag (which had been relaxed of late). They didn't bat an eyelid at the travel sized toothpaste which was in my flight-bag which I missed. Got to the gate an hour before take off which was a good call. The line was huge, although we were lucky with Elite access and our line was short. Full bag check (everything removed and looked at), and body searches. Women for the women (only 2 working compared to 6 for the men). My H was thoroughly searched including hands running round the inside of his underwear round the band (which he wasn't impressed with!). All in all it wasn't too bad at all, and considering the extra security, our flight was only an hour delayed. |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Mandana
(Post 8212797)
My H was thoroughly searched including hands running round the inside of his underwear round the band (which he wasn't impressed with!).
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by chartreuse
(Post 8212808)
I hope they used a fresh pair of gloves for each person!:ohmy:
As for the gloves .. I don't know. Probably not. |
Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by Mandana
(Post 8212835)
As for the gloves .. I don't know. Probably not.
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by chartreuse
(Post 8212850)
Ick! I wouldn't want them smearing some other guy's syphiherpaghonneraids inside my pants.:eek:
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by dunroving
(Post 8212871)
I actually tried Google and Wikipedia on this .... :rolleyes: :o
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by chartreuse
(Post 8212850)
Ick! I wouldn't want them smearing some other guy's syphiherpaghonneraids inside my pants.:eek:
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Re: More TSA Security
Originally Posted by lansbury
(Post 8213090)
bet they didn't warm the gloves up either.
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