Joe User

On Sat, 03 Aug 2002 23:17:02 -0700, Yez wrote:

    > David Eduardo wrote on alt.california:
    >
    >> "Concord 94598" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>>
    >>> I counted 85 Mexicans, I figure mostly illegal aliens, on Monument Boulevard this
    >>> morning around 10:00 am.
    >>
    >> I see. Now, tell me, do illegals glow or send off radiation that can be measured
    >> on a Geiger counter?
    >>
    >> I can't tell the difference between an illegal and a legal resident on sight.
    >> Since more than 80% of Hispanics are here legally, chances are most of those you
    >> saw were legal.
    >
    > The hate mongers use the terms 'might be' and 'appear to be' illegal quite a bit,
    > it is a tip off that they are the same trolling jerks.

The FACT stand that California has a HUGE Illegal alien population,

The FACT is that if you see large numbers of people looking for day labor jobs, they
are probably illegal, since legal immigrants have it (slightly) easier to find work.

The FACT is we don't need ANY immigrants, all those low level jobs could be
AUTOMATED, done with machines, but employers are CHEAP and don't want to make the
nessiary capital expendetures, instead allowing millions of surplus human beings to
invade our nation, they want them, they can take on the ENTIRE burden associated with
them, which means they pay much higher taxes to support the schools, police, social
services, etc associated with large numbers of menial labors.

    > They change the names they post with but the message is the always the same, they
    > feel incredibly inferior and threatened by the Mexican folks.

Threatned yes, inferior NO, what's the difference between allowing millions of third
worlders to enter the nation and drive the cost of living up and wages down, and
crooked executives of a company issuing millions of extra shares to themselves,
ensuring the stock I purchaced at fair market value decreasing in value since I'v
been "washed" out.

    > in So. Calif. and have nothing better to do than count, judge and hate. A Mexican
    > fellow who 'appeared to be illegal' must have stolen their girlfriends.

If a girl(or boy) is stupid enough to date thrid world trash, that's their problem,
it only becomes my problem when the thrid world trash threatens to decrease my
earning capicity by plunking their worthless hides on my nation.

Joe User

On Sun, 04 Aug 2002 09:38:26 -0700, Lon Stowell wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, <johnny@.> wrote:
    >>
    >>I don't know how anyone could feel inferior to a Mexican, but they are right to
    >>feel threatened, they are losing their jobs, their homes and their country to
    >>Mexicans.

    > PS. Ask any native american or original spanish grant settler who was here
    > first, and whether YOU are the intruder or not.

OUR (for those pathetic immigrants reading, that's the US Army) promptly beat the
shit out of the Native Americans and Mexicans and took this nation. Note all you
pathetic liberal "we are the world" lovers that this was in no way, shape or form
right, Our amry was stronger, and thus we get to take what we want, and the pathetic
of the world have to take it and like it.

    > However, I really really would prefer to see more mexicans here than racist
    > hatemongering snivelling little microcephalic cowards like you.

Yo Dipshit, MEXICO IS ANOTHER COUNTRY! Was/Is Sadam racist when he invades Kuait? He
seems to be all for arab brotherhood when it suits his needs(a/k/a the Palistinians).

LOL, liberal humanists are so patheticaly stupid, has nothing to do with skin color,
has everything to do with ensuring we get to keep our crap and culture, while pushing
the Mexcrement back to their side of the line.

The fewer of them, the more for me, and that's ALL that matters.

    > **** off and get a life.

Come back when you get a clue.

Richard Rongsta

Lon Stowell wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >We are the intruders, and we took this country by force, and now it is ours.
    >
    > Hey ****head, don't use the term "we".
    >
    > >That just shows what an idiot you are. When you don't want to face the truth, you
    > >snip people's posts and call them racists.
    >
    > Post with your real name you ****ing coward, so everyone can see what a racist
    > asshole you are.

Lon,

I am posting with my real name. I oppose illegal immigration.

I want U.S. laws enforced and I want U.S. laws respected by prospective immigrants
and citizens. I want alien violators of U.S. immigration law deported. I want alien
violators of U.S. criminal law deported. I want citizen violators of U.S. immigration
law fined and jailed. Do you want this?

The Concord City Council has acknowledged that the Mexicans clustered along Monument
Boulevard are illegal immigrants. The activists organizing the day worker center say
the workers are illegal immigrants. The Contra Costa Times says they are illegal
immigrants.

I have seen first hand the people and conditions along Monument Boulevard described
in various posts in this newsgroup. I agree with the Concord City Council, I agree
with the activists, and I agree with Contra Costa Times that the loiterers along
Monument Boulevard are illegal aliens.

Am I racist?

Joe User

On Sun, 04 Aug 2002 08:24:25 -0700, David Eduardo wrote:

    > "Concord 94598" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >> It's amazing the silly things people will write hoping to make the critics of
    >> illegal immigration go away. If only you would work harder to prevent illegal
    >> immigration instead of justifying it and laying down for it and trying to silence
    >> people like me, then the real problem might go away.
    >
    > Actually, I am opposed to illegal immigration and support reform of the INS.

If true, that would but you in the minority, most immigrants from whatever shithole
they hail from, support the contiuing influx of more of their countrymen.

    >> > > I can't tell the difference between an illegal and a legal resident on sight.
    >> > > Since more than 80% of Hispanics are here legally, chances are most of those
    >> > > you saw were legal.
    >>
    >> I can't either. But this is not rocket science. Since the illegals are bragging
    >> that they are illegal as they use the Monument Job Center, and since the creators
    >> of the job center are boasting that they have found a way to have the illegals
    >> flaunt their illegal status, and since the newspapers have also found they are
    >> illegals and since I have talked to quite a few of them and found they are
    >> illegals, then they must be illegals.
    >
    > "Hey, have you ever shoplifted?"
    >
    > "Did you run a red light today? "

If the difference between shoplifitng and running a red light have to be expalined to
you, you wouldn't get it anyways, unfortunatly, that is the point.

    > Most people, even if they have done these things, will say, "no." People have a
    > basic understanding of the concept of not incriminating themselves.
    >
    >> Finally, to dispel any notions that identification of illegal aliens requires a
    >> degree in rocket science, I know Mexican men that are legal residents and I know
    >> American men of Mexican ancestry. They don't loiter in groups on Monument
    >> Boulevard, pissing on the sides of buildings, sleeping on lawns and littering
    >> parking lots with trash.
    >
    > You have just described homless people, a group that is nearly 100% born-here
    > American, to a "T."

The difference is, homelessness is a national disgrace, a reflection on us,
millions of Latin Americans(not just Mexicans) sneaking into our nation and
engaging in this behavior is a reflection on THEM, and our assinine politicians
that allow it to happen.

Richard Rongsta

David Eduardo wrote:
    >
    > "Concord 94598" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > It's amazing the silly things people will write hoping to make the critics of
    > > illegal immigration go away. If only you would work harder to prevent illegal
    > > immigration instead of justifying it and laying down for it and trying to silence
    > > people like me, then the real problem might go away.
    >
    > Actually, I am opposed to illegal immigration and support reform of the INS.

Me too.

But, I think genuine reform of the INS is impossible without public support, and I
don't see the support.

    > That is not the same as hating Mexicans, however.

Absolutely correct. However, there are the inevitable insinuations that opposition to
illegal immigration is opposition to all immigration, and that opposition to Mexican
illegals is hatred of Mexicans.

    > >
    > > > > I can't tell the difference between an illegal and a legal resident on sight.
    > > > > Since more than 80% of Hispanics are here legally, chances are most of those
    > > > > you saw were legal.
    > >
    > > I can't either. But this is not rocket science. Since the illegals are bragging
    > > that they are illegal as they use the Monument Job Center, and since the creators
    > > of the job center are boasting that they have found a way to have the illegals
    > > flaunt their illegal status, and since the newspapers have also found they are
    > > illegals and since I have talked to quite a few of them and found they are
    > > illegals, then they must be illegals.
    >
    > "Hey, have you ever shoplifted?"
    >
    > "Did you run a red light today? "
    >
    > Most people, even if they have done these things, will say, "no." People have a
    > basic understanding of the concept of not incriminating themselves.

But, illegal aliens seem to have little to fear. They consented to giving their names
to the newspapers and had their photos and stories printed on the front page of the
Contra Costa Times in a series of articles last month.

    > > Finally, to dispel any notions that identification of illegal aliens requires a
    > > degree in rocket science, I know Mexican men that are legal residents and I know
    > > American men of Mexican ancestry. They don't loiter in groups on Monument
    > > Boulevard, pissing on the sides of buildings, sleeping on lawns and littering
    > > parking lots with trash.
    >
    > You have just described homless people, a group that is nearly 100% born-here
    > American, to a "T."

Yes, that is a good description of home grown homeless.

But, I agree with Concord 94598, you would be mistaken to assume that these are "100%
born-here American" homeless on Monument Boulevard.

    > So much for stereotypes.

I am familiar with the section of Monument Boulevard mentioned above. The Mexican
loiterers far outnumber the pushers of shopping baskets on Monument at any time of
day. But, you reminded me of a fact I had not quite absorbed. As I sit typing, I'm
wondering if the Mexicans actually drove off the homeless, because for about the past
six months I haven't seen any of the homeless I saw almost daily for years.

So much for the stereotype "so much for stereotypes" (:>).

In fact, as I mull this over while typing, I don't think I've seen anything quite
like the Monument Boulevard situation anywhere else in the Bay Area, and I frequently
visit some areas in the Bay Area heavily impacted by fresh immigration from all
corners of the world.

David Eduardo

<johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > David Eduardo wrote:
    >
    > > <johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > country to Mexicans. This is not because Mexicans are superior in
anyway,
    > > > how could they be, coming from a third world country where stealing a
cow
    > > > is a greater crime than rape?
    > >
    > > Another piece of untruth.
    >
    > Town elders who act as judges in local criminal matters are invariably men. In one
    > village in Guerrero state, elders were recently asked how they punish rape. The six
    > men looked confused, as if they did not know what the term meant. When it was
    > explained to them, they all laughed and said it sounded more like a courting ritual
    > than a crime.
    >
    > When they stopped laughing, they said a rapist would probably get a few hours in
    > the local jail, or he might have to pay the victim's family a $10 or $20 fine, but
    > that all would be forgotten if he and the victim got married.
    >
    > In the case of a cow thief, they said, the robber would be jailed. And, unlike the
    > rapist, a cow thief would be brought before the elders for a lecture about the
    > severity of the crime. http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/774215.asp?cp1=1
    >
    > This is what we have sneaking across our border.

No, this is an isolated, atypical incident in an isolated, atypical indigenous town,
reported on by what may possibly be a non-Spanish speaking reporter.

Generally, in rural Latin America, rapists are tread very harshly, particularly if
they are apprehended by the townsfolk before the authorities arrive.

So, you admit that your stereotype was crafted based on one news article.

Commendable research.

johnny

David Eduardo wrote:

    > <johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > David Eduardo wrote:
    > >
    > > > <johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > > country to Mexicans. This is not because Mexicans are superior in
    > anyway,
    > > > > how could they be, coming from a third world country where stealing a
    > cow
    > > > > is a greater crime than rape?
    > > >
    > > > Another piece of untruth.
    > >
    > > Town elders who act as judges in local criminal matters are invariably men. In
    > > one village in Guerrero state, elders were recently asked how they punish rape.
    > > The six men looked confused, as if they did not know what the term meant. When it
    > > was explained to them, they all laughed and said it sounded more like a courting
    > > ritual than a crime.
    > >
    > > When they stopped laughing, they said a rapist would probably get a few hours in
    > > the local jail, or he might have to pay the victim's family a $10 or $20 fine,
    > > but that all would be forgotten if he and the victim got married.
    > >
    > > In the case of a cow thief, they said, the robber would be jailed. And, unlike
    > > the rapist, a cow thief would be brought before the elders for a lecture about
    > > the severity of the crime. http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/774215.asp?cp1=1
    > >
    > > This is what we have sneaking across our border.
    >
    > No, this is an isolated, atypical incident in an isolated, atypical indigenous
    > town, reported on by what may possibly be a non-Spanish speaking reporter.
    >
    > Generally, in rural Latin America, rapists are tread very harshly, particularly if
    > they are apprehended by the townsfolk before the authorities arrive.
    >
    > So, you admit that your stereotype was crafted based on one news article.
    >
    > Commendable research.

The article was about Mexico not Latin America. Isolated and atypical? Maybe about
the cow. The article says rape goes unpunished in Mexico, and I agree with it.

--
"It’s not a crime to be in the U.S. illegally. It’s a violation of civil law." -INS
Deputy District Director Fred Alexander speaking to a group of "undocumented" day
laborers. Marietta (Georgia) Daily Journal

David Eduardo

"Joe User" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected] om...
    > On Sun, 04 Aug 2002 08:24:25 -0700, David Eduardo wrote:
    > >
    > > Actually, I am opposed to illegal immigration and support reform of the INS.
    >
    > If true, that would but you in the minority, most immigrants from whatever shithole
    > they hail from, support the contiuing influx of more of their countrymen.

Talk abnout leaping to conclusions and stereotyping. Where did I say I was an
immigrant? I was born here, as were my parents and grandparents. On one side of the
family, there are people going back about 400 years to the New England colonies.

It's tough, though, to argue with people who don't have any interest in the facts.

David Eduardo

<johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > David Eduardo wrote:
    > > No, this is an isolated, atypical incident in an isolated, atypical indigenous
    > > town, reported on by what may possibly be a non-Spanish
speaking
    > > reporter.
    > >
    > > Generally, in rural Latin America, rapists are tread very harshly, particularly
    > > if they are apprehended by the townsfolk before the
authorities
    > > arrive.
    > >
    > > So, you admit that your stereotype was crafted based on one news
article.
    > >
    > > Commendable research.
    >
    > The article was about Mexico not Latin America. Isolated and atypical?
Maybe
    > about the cow. The article says rape goes unpunished in Mexico, and I
agree
    > with it.

You have been in Mexico, especially rural areas, a lot? You speak fluent Spanish
and Náhuatl.

I thought not.

The incident is neither typical of Mexico (if even true) or Latin America (of which
Mexico forms a part, as you seem not to know.)

johnny

David Eduardo wrote:

    > <johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > David Eduardo wrote:
    > > > No, this is an isolated, atypical incident in an isolated, atypical indigenous
    > > > town, reported on by what may possibly be a non-Spanish
    > speaking
    > > > reporter.
    > > >
    > > > Generally, in rural Latin America, rapists are tread very harshly, particularly
    > > > if they are apprehended by the townsfolk before the
    > authorities
    > > > arrive.
    > > >
    > > > So, you admit that your stereotype was crafted based on one news
    > article.
    > > >
    > > > Commendable research.
    > >
    > > The article was about Mexico not Latin America. Isolated and atypical?
    > Maybe
    > > about the cow. The article says rape goes unpunished in Mexico, and I
    > agree
    > > with it.
    >
    > You have been in Mexico, especially rural areas, a lot? You speak fluent Spanish
    > and Náhuatl.

No I have not, but I take it you have. Did you specifically ask about their
laws on rape?

    >
    >
    > I thought not.
    >
    > The incident is neither typical of Mexico (if even true) or Latin America (of which
    > Mexico forms a part, as you seem not to know.)

Now you are saying the person that wrote the article might be lying. I don't know why
you keep bringing All of Latin America into this, I said Mexico.

David Eduardo

<johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > David Eduardo wrote:
    >
    > > You have been in Mexico, especially rural areas, a lot? You speak fluent Spanish
    > > and Náhuatl.
    >
    > No I have not, but I take it you have. Did you specifically ask about
their
    > laws on rape?

Rape carries a stiffer penalty in Mexican penal codes; local enforcement in that one
purported atypical village according to a person we might assume is not part of the
culture (by name and the condescending PC manner she writes
in) is hardly evidence of lax enforcement elsewhere.
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > I thought not.
    > >
    > > The incident is neither typical of Mexico (if even true) or Latin
America
    > > (of which Mexico forms a part, as you seem not to know.)
    >
    > Now you are saying the person that wrote the article might be lying. I
don't
    > know why you keep bringing All of Latin America into this, I said Mexico.

I am stating that people form other places don't always pick up the right facts in
news when they go to places of other cultures, languages and customs. I have for too
long witnessed reports on events in Latin America that I witnessed described totally
differently by foreign correspondents everywhere form Time to the New York Times...
wrong enough to ask, "was that person really here?" News and events are often much
influenced by the perceptions of the observer.

Mexico is part of Latin America. The culture is very similar in many aspects,
particularly insofar as protecting the purity or innocence of the woman. The legal
systems, based on Napoleonic Code, are also similar in many fundamental aspects.

Len

A woman born in 1880 told me that there was a man that raped a child. The next day
his gonads were hanging from a tree. Nothing else. True story. It occurred in the
state of Qxaca.

    >Town elders who act as judges in local criminal matters are invariably men. In one
    >village in Guerrero state, elders were recently asked how they punish rape. The six
    >men looked confused, as if they did not know what the term meant. When it was
    >explained to them, they all laughed and said it sounded more like a courting ritual
    >than a crime. When they stopped laughing, they said a rapist would probably get a
    >few hours in the local jail, or he might have to pay the victim’s family a $10 or
    >$20 fine, but that all would be forgotten if he and the victim got married. In the
    >case of a cow thief, they said, the robber would be jailed. And, unlike the rapist,
    >a cow thief would be brought before the elders for a lecture about the severity of
    >the crime. http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/774215.asp?cp1=1 This is what we have
    >sneaking across our border.

Talk to the finger, 'cause it don't deserve a whole hand.

johnny

David Eduardo wrote:

    > <johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > David Eduardo wrote:
    > >
    > > > You have been in Mexico, especially rural areas, a lot? You speak fluent
    > > > Spanish and Náhuatl.
    > >
    > > No I have not, but I take it you have. Did you specifically ask about
    > their
    > > laws on rape?
    >
    > Rape carries a stiffer penalty in Mexican penal codes; local enforcement in that
    > one purported atypical village according to a person we might assume is not part of
    > the culture (by name and the condescending PC manner she writes
    > in) is hardly evidence of lax enforcement elsewhere.
    > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I thought not.
    > > >
    > > > The incident is neither typical of Mexico (if even true) or Latin
    > America
    > > > (of which Mexico forms a part, as you seem not to know.)
    > >
    > > Now you are saying the person that wrote the article might be lying. I
    > don't
    > > know why you keep bringing All of Latin America into this, I said Mexico.
    >
    > I am stating that people form other places don't always pick up the right facts in
    > news when they go to places of other cultures, languages and customs. I have for
    > too long witnessed reports on events in Latin America that I witnessed described
    > totally differently by foreign correspondents everywhere form Time to the New York
    > Times... wrong enough to ask, "was that person really here?" News and events are
    > often much influenced by the perceptions of the observer.

The story was also reported on this website, but I can't find it in the archives.
http://www.thenewsmexico.com/

    >
    >
    > Mexico is part of Latin America. The culture is very similar in many aspects,
    > particularly insofar as protecting the purity or innocence of the woman. The legal
    > systems, based on Napoleonic Code, are also similar in many fundamental aspects.

I think you are trying to compare Mexico to Spain, their moral values are not
comparable

Mexico cares nothing about its people, men or women. The won't even pay for the
transportation back home for the people that have died in the desert seeking a
better life.

--
"It’s not a crime to be in the U.S. illegally. It’s a violation of civil law." -INS
Deputy District Director Fred Alexander speaking to a group of "undocumented" day
laborers. Marietta (Georgia) Daily Journal

Tiny Human Ferr

David Eduardo wrote:
    >
    > <johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > David Eduardo wrote:
    > >
    > > > <johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > > country to Mexicans. This is not because Mexicans are superior in
    > anyway,
    > > > > how could they be, coming from a third world country where stealing a
    > cow
    > > > > is a greater crime than rape?
    > > >
    > > > Another piece of untruth.
    > >
    > > Town elders who act as judges in local criminal matters are invariably men. In
    > > one village in Guerrero state, elders were recently asked how they punish rape.
    > > The six men looked confused, as if they did not know what the term meant. When it
    > > was explained to them, they all laughed and said it sounded more like a courting
    > > ritual than a crime.
    > >
    > > When they stopped laughing, they said a rapist would probably get a few hours in
    > > the local jail, or he might have to pay the victim's family a $10 or $20 fine,
    > > but that all would be forgotten if he and the victim got married.
    > >
    > > In the case of a cow thief, they said, the robber would be jailed. And, unlike
    > > the rapist, a cow thief would be brought before the elders for a lecture about
    > > the severity of the crime. http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/774215.asp?cp1=1
    > >
    > > This is what we have sneaking across our border.
    >
    > No, this is an isolated, atypical incident in an isolated, atypical indigenous
    > town, reported on by what may possibly be a non-Spanish speaking reporter.
    >
    > Generally, in rural Latin America, rapists are tread very harshly, particularly if
    > they are apprehended by the townsfolk before the authorities arrive.
    >
    > So, you admit that your stereotype was crafted based on one news article.
    >
    > Commendable research.

I dunno, tell us Dave, what do you think about the recent statistics that about 70
percent of 15-year-old Latinas have had sex? And that further, the suspicion is that
much less than half of those have had sex outside of what we in the US would call
"consensual relations"?

would you care to elaborate on how very difficult it was for the Mexican national
legislature to criminalize "rapto" (which I think I translate as "swooping" in the
same sense that an eagle is a "raptor" because it stoops for its prey), in which the
crime is described as "abducting a female for one's sexual gratification or for
purposes of wooing"?

--
Be kind to your neighbors, even though they be transgenic chimerae. Whom thou'st
vex'd waxeth wroth: Meow. <TEST--> http://earthops.net/klaatu/

Tiny Human Ferr

David Eduardo wrote:
    >
    > <johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > David Eduardo wrote:
    > >
    > > > <johnny@.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > > country to Mexicans. This is not because Mexicans are superior in
    > anyway,
    > > > > how could they be, coming from a third world country where stealing a
    > cow
    > > > > is a greater crime than rape?
    > > >
    > > > Another piece of untruth.
    > >
    > > Town elders who act as judges in local criminal matters are invariably men. In
    > > one village in Guerrero state, elders were recently asked how they punish rape.
    > > The six men looked confused, as if they did not know what the term meant. When it
    > > was explained to them, they all laughed and said it sounded more like a courting
    > > ritual than a crime.
    > >
    > > When they stopped laughing, they said a rapist would probably get a few hours in
    > > the local jail, or he might have to pay the victim's family a $10 or $20 fine,
    > > but that all would be forgotten if he and the victim got married.
    > >
    > > In the case of a cow thief, they said, the robber would be jailed. And, unlike
    > > the rapist, a cow thief would be brought before the elders for a lecture about
    > > the severity of the crime. http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/774215.asp?cp1=1
    > >
    > > This is what we have sneaking across our border.
    >
    > No, this is an isolated, atypical incident in an isolated, atypical indigenous
    > town, reported on by what may possibly be a non-Spanish speaking reporter.
    >
    > Generally, in rural Latin America, rapists are tread very harshly, particularly if
    > they are apprehended by the townsfolk before the authorities arrive.
    >
    > So, you admit that your stereotype was crafted based on one news article.
    >
    > Commendable research.

I dunno, tell us Dave, what do you think about the recent statistics that about 70
percent of 15-year-old Latinas have had sex? And that further, the suspicion is that
much less than half of those have had sex outside of what we in the US would call
"consensual relations"?

would you care to elaborate on how very difficult it was for the Mexican national
legislature to criminalize "rapto" (which I think I translate as "swooping" in the
same sense that an eagle is a "raptor" because it stoops for its prey), in which the
crime is described as "abducting a female for one's sexual gratification or for
purposes of wooing"?

--
Be kind to your neighbors, even though they be transgenic chimerae. Whom thou'st
vex'd waxeth wroth: Meow. <TEST--> http://earthops.net/klaatu/