Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

This entire site has been so eye-opening for me. I have so many questions. I picked my screen name because we Americans get BASHED on here. I'm not normally the flag-waving type, but finding out so many people in the world seem to dislike us really perks up my pride even more.

In response to the discussion about employment, it seems some of you want the best parts of socialism combined with the best parts of capitalism. And since a number of you seem to think Britain does a better job of providing that, I have to ask the obvious question: What keeps you here? If what keeps you here is a job, I assume if you could find an equivalent job in Britain you would. So if you can't, it would seem you're reaping the benefits of American capitalism while at the same time decrying it.

I've only been in England very briefly, and I've never been to other parts of Britain, so I don't have enough experience to make a judgment myself, but I’ve heard a number of British people say a lot of workers in Britain seem miserable; many customer service workers are rude (which I now might understand since this thread seems to suggest poor performers know they’re not in danger of getting fired – I kind of thought that was only a French thing :) ); hard work doesn't get rewarded; ambitious people are often looked down upon; entrepreneurial spirit isn’t as prevalent among the young as it is in America; and there’s accepted “class”/accent discrimination in hiring and promotion. So I ask those who’ve worked in both Britain and America, a) do you generally find these to be true, and b) if so, do you have any theories on why, despite what many of you say are superior working conditions in Britain, workers might be unhappier anyway? In other words, why aren’t long lunches, shorter days, longer vacations, government-sponsored health care, etc., making employees happier? Is it the rain? Seriously, I’m interested in your theories.

On another note, my jaw drops to the floor when I read about the many on this site who seem to move to Arizona, or Texas, or Florida, and then say they’re leaving America because it’s too hot and too Republican??? That would be like me saying I left France because I discovered after I moved there they spoke French.

Tip 1 of life in America, and of anywhere in the world: If you don’t like hot weather, don’t move to a desert, man. (Or a Florida tropical zone.) Makes life so much easier. If you don’t like conservatives, move to Massachusetts or New York or Vermont; if you don’t like harsh winters, move to the West Coast or the South. We have plenty of climate and political choice here. Don’t blame an entire country because you pitch your tent in a desert and expect sand to become ocean beneath your feet.

I personally couldn’t imagine living permanently in a country governed by a monarchy (talk about antiquated government systems...), but if I did, I would know know what I was getting into and wouldn’t spend my days sulking because an entire country wouldn’t change for me. And I’m someone who absolutely agrees America has much to improve upon; maybe someday we’ll get to a point where we can offer the rose without the thorns.

On the other hand, it occurs to me that overlooked in the criticism about health care is the fact that the U.S. has also pioneered worker safety measures; pioneered product safety and child safety regulations; abandoned a lot of industrial practices that were damaging to people and the environment; encourages (at some level) developing countries to improve working conditions and environmental practices; is probably the easiest country in the world in which to sue corporations for discrimination, deceptive advertising, injury, malpractice, shoddy workmanship and the like; and led the world in anti-smoking education and initiatives, banning smoking in a lot of places so workers wouldn’t be forced to breathe smoke against their will. Maybe some Europeans would prefer shorter maternity leaves in exchange for not having to suck down other people’s smoke during the pregnancy. There are a lot of positive things about the U.S. approach to healthy living. The U.S. is not indifferent to the needs of workers.

I think the idea behind the U.S. approach might be that when a company is free to gear its efforts toward maximum profit (by doing things like firing crappy workers, for instance), that company will then have the natural incentive to make its workers’ lives more pleasant in order to attract the best employees. Which doesn’t always happen, of course, but does happen with a lot of innovative companies; the most progressive of them offer perks and bonuses that would probably blow other Western countries out of the water. And getting fired isn’t always an awful thing people need to be protected from at all costs; sometimes it frees you to discover and pursue your true passions in life. I’ve been let go a few times in my life, and every time other than when took I the opportunity to pursue my own business ventures, I walked out the door and found a higher-paying job.

Ultimately, I have to say, if I have to choose between health care and sunshine, sunshine wins every day of the week. NO CONTEST. Human beings did actually survive before health insurance, you know. Did the pilgrims have the NHS to tuck them in at night? They survived, huh?

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

Thai has to be the most amusing post Ive ever seen on BE.

You clearly dont know the British. At all.

We aren't governed by the monachy. It's a parliamentary democracy. There goes your credibility.

One could easily suggest that the most dangerous export of the United States has been the presidential republic, without a strong constitution it can and has led to abuse of power and dictatorship.

The US has as many social problems as anywhere else.

Anyway, Mods apologies for taking this completely off topic!

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

:rofl:

If you knew anything about Brits, then you'd know that we like to piss take, banter, be sarcastic and complain. A LOT.

I can't believe you've taken it all so seriously! :rofl:

The clue is in the forum name. ;):lol:

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

I wonder what the potential healthcare costs are for an uninsured skin cancer patient.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

Happy to amuse, Civil Servant! Most amusing in BE history with my very first post! SCORE!

I've dated the British, if that counts for knowledge. :D

Pick whatever verb you want to replace "governed." I'm well aware you have a parliament and a prime minister, but you also have a bunch of people you pay obscene amounts of tax money to to run around Vegas taking their clothes off. And you're considered their "subjects," whatever the hell that means. And you're expected to bow down to one of them, as if she were a god.That I know about Britain. I'm not doing any curtsies for American politicians, I can tell you that. Worshipping human beings is a way more dangerous export.

Where did I deny the U.S. had social problems? My point was, if you came here expecting all roses and no thorns, and you thought all the successes of American industry came without a price, you are probably wiser to seek that utopia elsewhere.

I live in Massachusetts, where health insurance is mandatory, and state-subsidized for those who can't afford it. So no one here has to sacrifice health care for sunshine. That's part of my point – pick your states wisely and do your research before moving here, not on the plane ride back home.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

I don't think it does count to be honest, dating a Brit and growing up in the culture as a native are two very different things. My wife would never presume to know what it is to be a Brit, despite being married to me.

There are few of us that would do so either, however a large number of Americans did watch the Royal Wedding. Hard to argue against them when so many of your own countryman find them fascinating! I dont think there are any countries who have moved to a monarchy from anything else - so to call it an export is just plain wrong.

Most of us are well aware of the differences between the US and the UK, but to suggest that because we have made the choice to live here we should lose any right to social commentary is ridiculous...

.... or does the 1st amendment only apply to people who aren't criticising 'the land of the free'?

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

Yeah, I've noticed a bunch of you on here complain, A LOT. But I imagine the ones who aren't busy complaining all day are actually out making the best of where they live, so I wouldn't tar all British people with your brush.

And you may not be aware of the earnestness of some people's derision, but I'm a sharp-enough Yankee to tell you some people ain't kiddin'.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

You're a Yankee, that says it all.... I prefer Southerners :p

My wife (from SC) always says Yankees have an inferiority complex :D

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

Wait, I'm having to explain sarcasm to a Brit? Even when I took the extra step of putting a smiley next to my comment?

For clarification, I don't actually think dating a Brit counts as knowledge, especially for the short time we dated.

Is there a tongue-in-cheek icon I should use next time?

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

If I had my way, the monarchy would be abolished. However, what you apparently don't know about Britain is that the monarchy's existence has no practical impact on the daily lives of the overwhelming majority of the population. Which is presumably why issues that do, such as employment conditions and healthcare, are the ones that feature when people compare their lives in the two countries.

I don't disagree that it is wise to research your options in advance, but plenty of people on here moved because of a job in a specific place or to be with a partner. Which is not to say that they didn't freely choose to move, but that the choice of where to move to is often restricted. Furthermore, as someone who has lived in four different countries, my experience is that you don't really find out what a place is like until you have lived there for a while.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

I have no idea why so many Americans are fascinated by them, but it certainly doesn't stop me from arguing against the concept of human beings granted a state-sanctioned position of superiority and wealth by virtue only of their birth.

I live near a city that to this day has a river named after King Charles; a part of that city that was changed from a Native American name to "Charlestown"; a neighborhood of that city that's renowned for "Charles Street"; and a history that includes dumping tea in the harbor to fight for independence from the crown. So please don't try to tell me that monarchical rule has never been a British export. Some countries in India might disagree with you as well.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

You need to brush up on your geography as well, mind you coming from a country where 25% of the people couldn't place the USA on a map that's not too surprizing. India ia A country, there are NO other countries in India.
:rofl:

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

Put it this way, since you became a country we havent exported it.

CHildren :p

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

You can find out deserts are hot, and that Arizona and Texas are Republican, without living in them.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

Thia I will happily agree with. My congressman said that science was evil and contry to the word of god last year.... needless to say I dont agree with this statement... :lol:

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

Sorry, typed that without thinking of precise wording. What I meant was the entire British Empire in India, which I believe was divided into at least two separate states or provinces. I believe that a number of the names and maybe even boundaries have changed since the time of the Raj.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

You can find out the average temperature range of a region before you move there, yes, but if you have never lived in a similar climate before you may not know how well it is going to suit you. You can find out about the political leaning of a place but not necessarily understand how it will impact on your daily life and your interaction with the people. You can read about public services etc. without appreciating how well (or otherwise) they function until you have had cause to use them yourself. The nuances of 'culture' (whatever that term really encompasses) are learned over time. And so on.

But as I say, I've only lived in 4 countries, so what do I know?

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

Glad we finally have a point of agreement, CS!

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

and that there are more cults, more private armies and more people prepared to blame their own government for perpetrating all the atrocities that have happened in the USA over the last 30+ years.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

And that's fine, but the crux of my point was not to move to a desert and condemn all of America because it doesn't rain.

Make the best of the heat, move to a cooler state, or move back to Britain, but understand that YOU made choices that affected your experience here.

When I lived in France, there were Americans who were crying because they were homesick. I wasn't. I was out partying, man. There are pros and cons to wherever you are. France – some memorably crappy holes in the floor to pee in, but dirt cheap wine to generate the piss. Which are you going to focus on?

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

I broadly agree with you that knowing what you are getting into and having a positive attitude has a significant impact on what you get out of a place. I have certainly found that to be true in my case, anyway. I do think it shows a lack of empathy, however, to say: 'you chose it; live with it'. People have to make all kinds of choices to do with where they live, work, family etc. and each of those choices affects the others in varying ways, meaning that they can have negative consequences as well as positive ones. I don't hold it against people because they moan about the negative ones sometimes.

In fact, the many Americans I knew when I was still living in the UK were forever whining about little things, from the weather to chip and pin technology, to the dearth of massive Walmart-type supermarkets in the middle of historic town centres, to the small fridges and the fact that the sinks in many old buildings don't have combination hot/cold faucets! Which makes me wonder whether it is just human nature to complain about things we aren't used to and, furthermore, whether it is really worth the effort to rail against it.

At any rate, I'm signing off now to go out and enjoy a rare sunny day in the middle of this long winter..... :)

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

B.S. that the monarchy's existence has no practical impact on the daily lives of the population. You don't think it affects the psyche, even subconsciously, of somebody who has a "lesser" accent, or different skin color, or nontraditional religion to know there's an enormous position of privilege and wealth in their homeland to which they can effectively never aspire? Is their only hope at this point to get Harry to put a ring on it?

Paying taxes to sustain what appears to me to be utter discrimination doesn't affect the daily life and morale of a person who works hard for their money to support that which looks down on them? Mitt Romney got tossed for looking down on his subjects.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

Apparently you're the expert then, so I don't know why you would need to ask someone who grew up there (and who has a "lesser" accent and no religion) about it.

Bye :).

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

I dont, simply because the British do not look at positions of power (perceived power anyway) as the be all and end all to aspirations that the Americans do.

We dont all want to be middle class (By the way $250,000? Do me a favour). Or a CEO. Or a King. We're happy to do our jobs and go home.

You will never understand this, because you didn't grow up with it. Comparing MItt Romney and QE2, I dont even have a response that would do justice to that statement!

The irony of this thread is that you originally attacked Brits for criticizing (essentially) what they didnt understand, and in trying to make that point you are now replicating the beheviour.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

I'm not saying, "You chose it, live with it." I completely support moving on from choices you're not happy with. I do it all the time.

I also support trying to change the health care system or the employment system or whatever you think needs to be fixed. And I think foreigners have a lot of useful perspective to offer Americans on societal improvements we could make. But to me a lot of the complaining seems like when people gripe about their spouses or significant others, harping on their faults morning, noon and night, yet never leave. At some point you have to decide to accept them for what they are, or move on and find somebody who makes you happy.

Life to me is about a quest for happiness. Maybe if you fume at the desert skies long enough they'll rain for you. But probably not. So how much of your life are you prepared to spend in resentment before you pack up and move on? I don't have a lack of empathy; I have a pragmatism about how life works.

As someone who grew up absorbing a lot of negativity from someone who had nothing good to say about America (but somehow later returned here to stay despite the option to leave), I think everyone should concentrate on finding happiness, wherever it lies, so others around you can feed off your positive energy. Your children may be learning lessons you don't mean to teach them.

Enjoy the sun.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

:amen:

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

I really don't understand most of what you're talking about. I don't understand what's offensive about comparing two leadership-type positions to each other. The queen may not strictly be a leader, but she serves somewhat of that purpose. Otherwise what do people pay her for and celebrate holidays in her honor for? She's a leader of sorts. What's so offensive about calling her that?

And I can confidently sit in America and tell you from here that it's statistically impossible that every single person in Britain is happy to just do their jobs and go home.

Tell me what it is you think I don't understand about monarchs.

Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
 

"Lesser" isn't coming from me. That's just my understanding from British people. I love ALL British accents, sweetie. Listening to Tracey Ullman speak about America years ago was actually the first time I recall ever finding out that accents have a different place in British society than they do here.

BUT, I found out from reading online that loving British accents is evidently another American no-no. Seems a number of you take secret umbrage when Americans compliment your accents, so I will remember to no longer do that in real life.

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

British ExPats Website doesn't have enough Bandwith to list the reasons why ;)

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

Good thing I decided to hover over that emoticon and found out it was a wink, 'cause you were about to get it...

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

I agree with him. Note no smiley in this post.

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

Yeah, I know, you're all about the thunder clouds, right? Maybe you should ask BE to spring for more bandwidth.

I think I read in another thread that you're moving to Canada or something, so good on ya for finding your bliss. It seems you'll be happier there.

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

YankeePride, you say you've known Brits, which may or may not mean you've done some travelling outside the US. But even if you've not done any travelling outside US borders surely...surely you must understand that not all foreigners feel positive about Americans and American life.

Believe me, you'd complain just as much if you went to live in the UK for more than a visit. (I have American relatives who have done that.) It's completely natural! I don't understand why you're so surprised at the grumblings on this site....

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

I think you're a bit sensitive. There are other Americans on the forum who seem to get along here just fine. The expats who are here, for the most part, chose to be here - ie we chose your country to live in, at least for a while, so it can't be all bad, eh? And of course we criticize things - so does everyone everywhere, including, I'm sure, Americans who live in the UK.

I do think you need to brush up on UK history, government, and culture a little bit though.

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

Yep - He's a Yank, alright.

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

YankeePride, you asked for comments from those who have lived in both countries. Well, I'll bite. I'm a 'born and raised' American who's lived in Europe and the UK for over 30 years.

I'll comment on just one of the easiest of your points, the Monarchy. I don't intend to go into the political aspects of it, but would like to offer a few facts from my perspective.

I worked in a UK industry that could call on a Royal 'Presence' when needed. The Royalty spend much of their time promoting British products. I've met a number of Royals on numerous occasions. Their presence was always an asset, they were very co-operative, and they did make an impact towards positive results. To be balanced, I will say I was....how should I put it......underwhelmed.. by some particular individuals.

I imagine the city of Londons' budget may have survived for more than a few days thanks to all the American tourists and American TV 'royalties' from William and Kates' marriage.

I've read the cost to every resident of the UK to support the Monarchy is just under $1 a year.

Last year, it cost me $120 to send my US tax return and FBAR to the US Treasury from which neither me, nor the US, benefited in any way.

I certainly know where I feel I get the most 'bang' for my buck.

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

A stalker...:eek:

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

If you watch FOX or go to see tea baggers, you will see that many Americans complain about America far more than us Brits. It seems the more flags you have and the more you love the mythical America, the more you hate the real America.

By the way, if you ever go to Antarctica, take a coat, not all deserts are hot and dry.

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

Only in the US do I meet this love of country being considered an article of faith. Elsewhere, concrete goods and evils are subject to rational assessment, without it in any way impugning one's love of one's own country or patriotism or whatever. Goodness knows we Brits criticize our own country :blink:. Please note that I'm not saying that every American does this - as we know from our very own Americans on this board.

Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
 

Have a little read about the constitutional monarchy of the UK.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...-monarchy.html