PhoenixFrost

Hi please help believe me I have tried to research this on my own And have found nothing!
I became a US citizen last month in Los Angeles through naturalization.
I am originally from Britain and I noticed once I collected my certificate. It says FORMER Nationality- British. Nationality- American on the certificate.
i am very worried about this. Does this now mean because I am a US citizen I am no longer a british citizen??
Thanks in advance for any advice

mikelincs

Welcome to BE.

You are still a British Citizen, just gaining US citizenship doesn't affect that, the only way to lose it would be if you formally relinquished it in front of UK authorities, which is something you will be very unlikely to have done, The US does have delusions of Grandeur thinking it's citizenship trumps all others but not so, unless your country doesn't allow dual citizenship, which is NOT the case oin your situation. You are therefore a dual citizen.

S Folinsky

This is an interesting area of international law. Dual nationality is considered undesirable due to possible conflicting loyalties. Also, statelessness is also frowned upon.

An aspect of sovereignty is that each country determines whose it's own citizens are.

One of the issues behind the War of 1812 was the Royal Navy's form of conscription called impressment. Although the issue was not addressed in the Treaty of Ghent, it seems that the RN had ceased impressment so it was a non-issue. I don't think the underlying legal issue was ever resolved.

Once heard a newly naturalized US citizen proclaim after taking the oath, with it's renunciation, "I told Liz to go to hell." My reaction was "Liz says you can't do that."

The US passport has a page of fine print. One paragraph warns that a person may be a dual national and therefore the US will not be able to protect them when in country of other nationality.

The 1952 Supreme Court case of Kawakita v United States involved a dual Japanese/US citizen who was tried and convicted of treason against the US.

The extradition and murder proceedings of Samuel Sheinbein in Israel demonstrates some of the potential problems of dual nationality.

One of the more convoluted US prosecutions of Nazi war criminals involved Johan Breyer who had been born in Czechoslovakia of an American mother. There was a claim of US nationality which allowed him to avoid deportation. (He died in custody awaiting extradition to Germany) (Pursuant to the decisions in Breyer, Winston Churchill was a dual national of the US and the UK).

BritInParis

Despite what your US naturalization certificate may say, only the British government can remove your British citizenship. All US naturalization certificates list the 'former' nationality of the applicant but you would only lose your original citizenship if the nationality law of the country in question forbids dual citizenship. The UK has permitted unrestricted dual citizenship since 1949.

moneypenny20

Have things not changed at all since 1812 or the 1950s? I obviously know very very little about the subject, but I don't understand the relevance of your post. I'm really just being nosey.

S Folinsky

My post was prompted by the comment posted by Mikelincs which I found to be on the snarky side.

I found a wikipedia article on the subject here. I see that I was a little wrong on whether or not the UK will recognize the US nationality of British citizens naturalized in the US -- but I was right it was not part of resolution of the War of 1812.

Of course laws change over time. But quite often the roots of law can go way back. The 18th Century Commentaries of Blackstone are still cited.

Steve_

The most relevant court case is from 1978 where the Supreme Court opined that one cannot constructively lose US citizenship by naturalizing somewhere else; since then the State Dept. has taken the position that the reverse is also true.

And thus a lot of people suddenly became liable for US taxes who were told in writing they were no longer US citizens.

rpjs

And since then the fee to renounce US citizenship has gone up to several thousand $$$ and they can still refuse to allow it if they think you're only doing so to avoid tax.

In theory the State Department still regards serving in a policy-making rôle in a foreign government can be an expatriating act, but they didn't seem to mind Boris Johnson being an MP and Mayor of London while still a USC (I *think* he renounced some time before he became Foreign Secretary, BICBW).

S Folinsky

I think your talking about the 1980 case of Vance v Terrazas

Are you aware of any people who had a written determination of non-citizenship then suddenly becoming liable for taxes? I think that the prior written decision by those with authority to make the decision would constitute a "safe harbor" from tax liability.

That said, over the years, case law has gone from somewhat favoring a finding of expatriation to disfavoring it. I tend to think that taxes have had something to do with it.

BTW, one of the "mother" cases in recent legal history is Afroyim v. Rusk I mentioned Johann Breyer in my first post. In his citizenship fight to avoid deportation, the issue became one of expatriation. Breyer had no intention of abandoning citizenship for a simple reason -- he did not know he was a citizen via his mother. [See Winston Churchill's ]. The issue then became was whether or not Breyer's action were so inconsistent with American Citizenship so that express intent was not necessary to find expatriation. The courts ruled not -- although the language of the opinion was in the tone of holding their nose at helping a Nazi war criminal. I found it ironic that a criminal Nazi relied on Afroyim.