cbernard

not sure where that article's source is, but it reminded me of two other articles about america that i've read recently. This first article might be much more offensive to some, so take that as a warning. however, I am finding this debate/flamewar interesting and might as well fuel it until it gets shut down...

http://tnugent.com/news/10042001.shtml

(note that it's hosted on ted nugent's website, that should be warning enough)

_______

Now the 2nd article is about a year old, written just after the september 11 tragedy, so some have probably read it already, but it's a wonderful article written by a canadian journalist in defense of America (seems like everyone hates us these days)

http://www.americanmemorials.com/mem...ntributor=7643

I probably should have listed this article 1st, but oh well.

____________

Ptarmigan

I have seen both before, and agree with them both. Some of the views are unfashionable rather than objectionable, but there is no harm in that

beyness

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I, for one, won't persecute them... I suppose that's what makes this country, with all it's faults, so good...

Samantha

    > Try reading the BOTTOM half of that URL and you will find the Florida story
    > referenced!! Duh!!
    >
    > matta

So I was hasty. I still dont see the original story in the so called Tampa newspaper.

BTW, matta, you seem to have forgotten a fundamental concept judging by this
post of yours:

"Frankly, I think she is stupid for not taking off the headress, and I consider that
to be yet another denigration of the worth of women, but it's her choice, and she has
no constituional right to drive."

So I feel I ought to remind you that:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting
the free exercise thereof;"

You also seem to have forgotten fundamental rules of etiquette in composing messages
in English, meant for an online forum. So here is a refresher:

"Excessive punctuation (????, !!!!, etc.... .... ....) is poor style when composing
English prose. "

-Samantha

Rob S

This is very interesting. I have looked for the original source of this article that
was posted. And everywhere its just a link some one else posted. Does any one have
_any_ idea exactly where this newspaper is?

I looked for the specific article in question under the newspapers from Tampa. I
failed to see anything.

I am inclined to believe that there was no real article printed, besides a troll of
some sort.

-Samantha
[/B][/QUOTE]

I suspect the letter is a hoax, I originally saw something similar last fall. However I also suspect it reflects the opinions of a few too many people out there - and not not just in America.

Mrtravel

Samantha wro
    > So I feel I ought to remind you that:
    >
    > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting
    > the free exercise thereof;"

Right, so this has NOTHING to do with a state issued driver's license.

Matta Harri

In article <[email protected] >, [email protected]
(Samantha) wrote:

    > BTW, matta, you seem to have forgotten a fundamental concept judging by this post
    > of yours:
    >
    > "Frankly, I think she is stupid for not taking off the headress, and I consider
    > that to be yet another denigration of the worth of women, but it's her choice, and
    > she has no constituional right to drive."
    >
    > So I feel I ought to remind you that:
    >
    > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting
    > the free exercise thereof;"
    >
    > You also seem to have forgotten fundamental rules of etiquette in composing
    > messages in English, meant for an online forum. So here is a refresher:
    >
    > "Excessive punctuation (????, !!!!, etc.... .... ....) is poor style when composing
    > English prose. "
    >
1. Here is another URL from the ACLU site in Florida with the original story (the
original appeared in the Florida Sentinel and is no longer available at their
site): http://www.aclufl.org/body_orlandosenveilsuit13002.html

2. Free exercise of religion does not include violation of the law. If the law
specifies a picture, then I think she should obey it. For instance, what if I said
that my religion demands that I kill someone every week? Would you think that
should be honored by the court? didn't think so.

3. I'll punctuate when and where I please, I have the right to free speechTESTyou
seem to have forgotten this constitutional right.

matta

Chris Moorehead

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    > Now the 2nd article is about a year old, written just after the september 11
    > tragedy, so some have probably read it already, but it's a wonderful article
    > written by a canadian journalist in defense of America (seems like everyone hates
    > us these days)

It's not a recent piece. It was written by Canadian journalist & broadcaster Gordon
Sinclair around 1972, as a commentary on the Vietnam War. Note that the references to
American draft-dodgers is in the present tense.

Check out the Urban Legends Reference Site (http://www.snopes2.com) for more
information on this. There's also a section on the original piece that started this
entire thread. It's been spammed continuously throughout Usenet for months now, with
the Florida driver's license story added to it.

Chris

--
CHRISTOPHER J. MOOREHEAD Durham, NC [email protected]

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to
stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is
morally treasonable to the American public." ~ Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

Chris Moorehead

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > This is very interesting. I have looked for the original source of this article
    > that was posted. And everywhere its just a link some one else posted. Does any one
    > have _any_ idea exactly where this newspaper is?

Check our the Urban Legends Reference page (http://www.snopes2.com) & search for
"Barry Loudermilk".

Chris

--
CHRISTOPHER J. MOOREHEAD Durham, NC [email protected]

"In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a
scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to
submit that it is the first." -- Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914)

Samantha

Again. To clarify, by original story, I mean the orginal story that was posted to
start this thread. It began as follows:

"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT. I am tired of this nation worrying about
whether we are offending some individual or their culture."

I do _not_ see this story in the archives or any other newspaper. I now believe this
above story to be a hoax.

Matta, you said:

"Free exercise of religion does not include violation of the law."

Since the Floridian woman did have her picture taken as granted by the State of
Florida. I don't see how and where she violated any law here.

"If the law specifies a picture, then I think she should obey it."

Which she did, she had her picture taken.

"For instance, what if I said that my religion demands that I kill someone every
week? Would you think that should be honored by the court? didn't think so."

Actually, there is this weird inconsistent mixture of patriotism and Christianity
which does call for the death of people all the time. The people who follow this
mixture are called soldiers. This _is_ infact "honored by the court(s)". Many
people who were American citizens _did_ go to jail for refusing to kill people
(Think Vietnam).

Furthermore, one cannot make laws to override the constitution (I should mention
again, that this Floridian woman did _not_ break any laws here. I should also mention
again, I fail to see the original story).

"I'll punctuate when and where I please, I have the right to free speechTESTyou seem
to have forgotten this constitutional right."

You seem to be very confused about certain meanings, and I will take it upon myself
to re-educate you.

"Free Speech - The right to express any opinion in public without censorship or
restraint by the government."

I am not mandating any rule here, I am just asking that you use English in the
correct usage. You seem to fail to demonstrate the correct usage of the official
language of the US, something you should be familiar with. Basic punctuation having
been taught in grade schools in the US. Yet, you seem to have problems with
immigrants who have the same problems as yourself. I am sure you see the irony here.

-Samantha

Rete

That piece is NOT the Sinclair piece. Perhaps you should check it out.

Rete

Rete

Hoax or not, I as an United States Citizen agree with it 100%

My grandparents were immigrations as was my mother. All of them conversed, read and wrote English. While they retained certain customs of their countries, i.e. celebration of Christmas and Easter (note these to be religious holidays) in the tradition of their particular countries, they also all became US citizens and left their Polish and German costumes in Poland and Germany. They did not live a world comprised of only immigrants from their home country but became part and parcel of the so-called melting pot of America.

As for the DL photo issues, NJ doesn't require photos. You can get your license in either version. But if a photo is mandatory for that State than the photo is for identification purposes. And you sure as hell cannot identify someone with a cloth covering their faces. Here's hoping that someone appeals this decision so that the civil rights of the rest of the Floridian population can stop being violated by a woman who is carrying religious freedom to the extent that it infringes on everyone elses freedoms.

Rete

Rete

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Our_Culture/americans.htm

This is the actual Gordon Sinclair piece that another poster was referring to.

The one Jadm posted originally is totally different. I have seen the post before in e-mails and enjoyed reading it then and now.

Rete

Dj

    > You seem to fail to demonstrate the correct usage of the official language
    > of the US

The United States currently has no official language (as per federal law). There is
nothing stopping a state from adopting Spanish (or any other language) as its
official language at the moment. Of course that will not happen as the vast majority
speak english, but there is no "official" language in the US.

DJ

Jadm

I agree with that!