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Living abroad after one has a green card?

Living abroad after one has a green card?

Old Oct 14th 2002, 6:12 pm
  #1  
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Question Living abroad after one has a green card?

My Fiance wants to know when we would be able to leave the United States and live in his country of origin (Turkey) for a period of time (a couple of years)?

My assumption would be that we have to wait until he gets a green card. I wanted to check on this because we do not want to do anything that will jeapordize our ability to live in America. It's just that his family wants us to spend some time in Turkey too so that our children would get the benefits of both cultures.

Please help..and is this an issue that once my Fiance comes into the USA on his K1 that we should discuss with an immigration attorney? I just don't want to mess things up.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Sincerely,

Judi
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Old Oct 14th 2002, 6:30 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

Originally posted by ljudi72:
My Fiance wants to know when we would be able to leave the United States and live in his country of origin (Turkey) for a period of time (a couple of years)?

My assumption would be that we have to wait until he gets a green card.
Sincerely,

Judi
Hi Judi,
My concern is that the INS could argue that your husband abandoned his permanent resident status. Before getting his permanent resident status, he would use an advanced parole document for short trips outside the U.S. while his I-485 is pending. Once he gains conditional or regular permanent resident status, he could always apply for a reentry permit, however just having a reentry permit does not prevent the INS from concluding that he abandoned his status due to the circumstances/facts relating to "living" in Turkey, and the amount of time spent outside the U.S.

If he were to have his status taken away by the INS due to abandonment, he could always apply for an immigrant visa sometime in the future based upon his marriage to you (of course, you would need to get an I-130 approved first).

And of course, he could always wait until he gets his U.S. citizenship before moving back to Turkey. It is much more difficult to lose one's U.S. citizenship, and simply moving to Turkey for a couple of years should not lead to the loss of U.S. citizenship.

Good luck,
Matthew Udall
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Old Oct 14th 2002, 6:56 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?


It is much more difficult to lose one's U.S. citizenship, and simply moving to Turkey for a couple of years should not lead to the loss of U.S. citizenship.
Unless the rules are different for naturalized citizens than they are for citizens by birth, living abroad for an extended period will not be a ground for loss of citizenship.

My uncle was born in the US just because his parents happened to be there at the time, but he has lived in France for pretty much all his life, and he still has his US citizenship.

Caroline
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Old Oct 14th 2002, 8:09 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

ljudi72 wrote:
    > My Fiance wants to know when we would be able to leave the United States
    > and live in his country of origin (Turkey) for a period of time (a
    > couple of years)?
    > My assumption would be that we have to wait until he gets a green card.
    > I wanted to check on this because we do not want to do anything that
    > will jeapordize our ability to live in America. It's just that his
    > family wants us to spend some time in Turkey too so that our children
    > would get the benefits of both cultures.
    > Please help..and is this an issue that once my Fiance comes into the USA
    > on his K1 that we should discuss with an immigration attorney? I just
    > don't want to mess things up.
    > Thanks in advance for any info.
    > Sincerely,
    > Judi
    > --
    > Judi
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

No you cannot. I believe the max is one year. If you stay
out of the US for longer, he will loose his Greencard.
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Old Oct 14th 2002, 8:24 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

Steg,

Your answer is not correct. It is quite possible for a Permanent Resident to leave the USA for more than a year and not lose their PR status.

I have seen you post other incorrect answers, and at least one other poster has asked you to refrain from posting incorrect information. I support that request. You are doing a grave disservice by giving out incorrect information.

Regards, JEff

Originally posted by Steggy:
ljudi72 wrote:
    > My Fiance wants to know when we would be able to leave the United States
    > and live in his country of origin (Turkey) for a period of time (a
    > couple of years)?
    > My assumption would be that we have to wait until he gets a green card.
    > I wanted to check on this because we do not want to do anything that
    > will jeapordize our ability to live in America. It's just that his
    > family wants us to spend some time in Turkey too so that our children
    > would get the benefits of both cultures.
    > Please help..and is this an issue that once my Fiance comes into the USA
    > on his K1 that we should discuss with an immigration attorney? I just
    > don't want to mess things up.
    > Thanks in advance for any info.
    > Sincerely,
    > Judi
    > --
    > Judi
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

No you cannot. I believe the max is one year. If you stay
out of the US for longer, he will loose his Greencard.
--
steg
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Old Oct 14th 2002, 9:03 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

[QUOTE][SIZE=1]Originally posted by ljudi72:
My Fiance wants to know when we would be able to leave the United States and live in his country of origin (Turkey) for a period of time (a couple of years)?

My assumption would be that we have to wait until he gets a green card.

Judi - slightly incorrect assumption - my spouse and I are facing same issue now because we were not awar of restrictions before we returned to his country of origin after he got his green card...

Once you have PR status, if you plan to leave the country for more than 1 yr there is a form you have to file BEFORE YOU GO!!- I'm afraid I don't know the number of it -

Once you've gone, if you DID NOT file the form you then apparently have to apply to have a dertemination made that you did not intend to abandon your residency in US -the status is retuirning resident alien determination, or something like that. Bottom line - get that form filed BEFORE YOU GO! Otherwise, face all kinds of headaches afterward.
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Old Oct 14th 2002, 9:31 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

jeffreyhy wrote:
    > Steg,
    > Your answer is not correct. It is quite possible for a Permanent
    > Resident to leave the USA for more than a year and not lose their
    > PR status.
    > I have seen you post other incorrect answers, and at least one other
    > poster has asked you to refrain from posting incorrect information. I
    > support that request. You are doing a grave disservice by giving out
    > incorrect information.
    > Regards, JEff
I fully understand you, Jeff. The feeling crawled upon me
earlier. I try to be clear when it is just a personal
experience and nothing more, and when I believe I know it
for certain, with data added. I made some flaws lately and I
regret that. The issues people are dealing with are too important.

Sorry, I will take more care and be more specific of what I
know for sure and what my assessments are.

About the question above: that was told to me by INS and
confirmd by a lawyer. I was told that I would stand a very
good chance loosing my PR status if I would leave the US for
more than 12 months. That was one year ago. Did they
misinformed me?
--
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 5:11 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

Steg,

I cannot offer an opinion as to whether or not you were mis-informed, in part because I do not know the circumstances under which you would have been gone from the US for more than 12 months.

If one wants to leave the US for more than 12 months, one should file for a re-entry permit before leaving. See Matt Udall's post earlier in this thread. Many people have done this and have successfully maintained their Permanent Resident status after having been away for more than 12 months. Some people have undoubtedly not been successful. It depends on the circumstances of the particular case.

Even in your case, being told that you stood a very good chance of losing your Permanent Resident status is NOT the same as being told that you would lose your status.

Regards, JEff

Originally posted by Steggy:
jeffreyhy wrote:
    > Steg,
    > Your answer is not correct. It is quite possible for a Permanent
    > Resident to leave the USA for more than a year and not lose their
    > PR status.
    > I have seen you post other incorrect answers, and at least one other
    > poster has asked you to refrain from posting incorrect information. I
    > support that request. You are doing a grave disservice by giving out
    > incorrect information.
    > Regards, JEff
I fully understand you, Jeff. The feeling crawled upon me
earlier. I try to be clear when it is just a personal
experience and nothing more, and when I believe I know it
for certain, with data added. I made some flaws lately and I
regret that. The issues people are dealing with are too important.

Sorry, I will take more care and be more specific of what I
know for sure and what my assessments are.

About the question above: that was told to me by INS and
confirmd by a lawyer. I was told that I would stand a very
good chance loosing my PR status if I would leave the US for
more than 12 months. That was one year ago. Did they
misinformed me?
--
steg
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 8:20 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

Originally posted by Steggy:
About the question above: that was told to me by INS and
confirmd by a lawyer. I was told that I would stand a very
good chance loosing my PR status if I would leave the US for
more than 12 months. That was one year ago. Did they
misinformed me?
--
steg
Not if the attorney was advising you on the fact that you would have left the US for more than one year without a re-entry permit. Then his advice was correct.

We all know that INS information is the most incorrect information passed on to the general public.

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Old Oct 15th 2002, 10:09 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

Originally posted by Rete:


Not if the attorney was advising you on the fact that you would have left the US for more than one year without a re-entry permit. Then his advice was correct.

We all know that INS information is the most incorrect information passed on to the general public.

Rete
Rita, on what do you base your critique of this attorneys advice? Are you suggesting that he would not be correct if the time spent outside the U.S. was less than 1 year?

According to an immigration text I often refer to, it says that, "Possession of a reentry permit does not prevent the INS from inquiring as to whether the reentry permit holder abandoned his or her residency. It simply prevents the INS from relying "solely" on the duration of the holder's absence as a basis to determine abandonment"

I believe abandonment issues are a "case by case" type of situation (must look at the particular facts to see what the person's intent was), and not a "cookbook" type of situation where one can say with authority that "you are safe as long as X amount of time has not gone by". But of course, I could be wrong (have not needed to get a reentry permit for a client yet, nor have I had to fight with INS over an abandonment issue yet).

M.U.
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Old Oct 16th 2002, 1:27 am
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

Originally posted by ljudi72:
My Fiance wants to know when we would be able to leave the United States and live in his country of origin (Turkey) for a period of time (a couple of years)?

My assumption would be that we have to wait until he gets a green card. I wanted to check on this because we do not want to do anything that will jeapordize our ability to live in America. It's just that his family wants us to spend some time in Turkey too so that our children would get the benefits of both cultures.

Please help..and is this an issue that once my Fiance comes into the USA on his K1 that we should discuss with an immigration attorney? I just don't want to mess things up.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Sincerely,

Judi
Hi Judi:

This is a particularly difficult area of the law with all kinds of shades of grey in it. Over the years, I've had many abandonment cases and just returned from a bad day at our local INS in relation to such a case. So if I sound a little distressed, its becuase I am. [Just out of pure conincidence, I had three abandonment cases before one Immigration Judge in a three year period -- he was convinced that was ALL that I did].

In regards to the other answers in this string -- it should be borne in mind that DOCUMENTATION and actual abandonment may be related but are SEPARATE issues. It is possible to have documentation which is prima facie valid but still be considered to have abandoned residence.

For abandonment, you have to have two elements -- actual departure and INTENT to abandon. As to the second element, that is quite subjective and INS and the Courts cannot read minds. So the search is for objective indicia of subjective intent. That exercise is often difficult -- you can't reduce to an usenet posting what can take 3 court days to litigate!

Time is NOT, repeat NOT, the sole factor and often is not even the most important factor. I had one case where abandonment was found after an absense of ONE DAY. I've had three where I got the people back after an absense of SIX YEARS. Each one was dependent upon the facts.

MYTH: you can live outside the US if you come back once a year. This is NOT true. Repeat NOT true. The published case law says so.

MYTH: a reentry permit [the "white passport"] guarantees reentry. No way. However, a reentry permit is a good idea.

Do consult with an immigration attorney. BTW, this is one of those area where I find many attorney's get it wrong.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with reimmigrating if there is an abandonment.
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Old Oct 16th 2002, 12:44 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

"Folinskyinla" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
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...
    > Time is NOT, repeat NOT, the sole factor and often is not even the most
    > important factor. I had one case where abandonment was found after an
    > absense of ONE DAY. I've had three where I got the people back after an
    > absense of SIX YEARS. Each one was dependent upon the facts.

Six years? If you handled the cases, I assume it wasn't as simple as
obtaining a returning resident (SB-1) visa at a U.S. Consulate - rather, it
was some sort of INS proceeding. Thus, they probably entered (or tried to
enter) using their green card. Is that some kind of bar to overcome - i.e.
using a green card to enter which is not valid because the alien departed
more than a year ago? Or, did you just have to prove no intent to abandon,
and the entry issue was forgiven?

Paulgani
 
Old Oct 16th 2002, 1:59 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

Originally posted by Paulgani:
"Folinskyinla" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
.com
...
    > Time is NOT, repeat NOT, the sole factor and often is not even the most
    > important factor. I had one case where abandonment was found after an
    > absense of ONE DAY. I've had three where I got the people back after an
    > absense of SIX YEARS. Each one was dependent upon the facts.

Six years? If you handled the cases, I assume it wasn't as simple as
obtaining a returning resident (SB-1) visa at a U.S. Consulate - rather, it
was some sort of INS proceeding. Thus, they probably entered (or tried to
enter) using their green card. Is that some kind of bar to overcome - i.e.
using a green card to enter which is not valid because the alien departed
more than a year ago? Or, did you just have to prove no intent to abandon,
and the entry issue was forgiven?

Paulgani
Hi:

Assume all you want. In this case, you assume wrong.

The cases involve a myriad of scenarios -- SB-1's, deferred inspections and actual proceedings.
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Old Oct 16th 2002, 7:21 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

Hi,

This thread is of interest to me as I would like to have the option of my future wife and I of returning to UK for a year or two after I have my permanent residency.

What is the best way to do this or is it the case that once you file for Permanent Residency and receive it you can never leave the country for extended periods???

THanks for the help

Pete
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Old Oct 16th 2002, 8:50 pm
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Default Re: Living abroad after one has a green card?

Originally posted by PeteJ:
Hi,

This thread is of interest to me as I would like to have the option of my future wife and I of returning to UK for a year or two after I have my permanent residency.

What is the best way to do this or is it the case that once you file for Permanent Residency and receive it you can never leave the country for extended periods???

THanks for the help

Pete
Hi:

These cases are quite fact specific -- they are incapable of short sweet simple answers. I'm not being evasive, its just that this is not a simple area of the law. It also gets tied into eligiblity for naturalization.

Legal advice is needed for every case -- you are on the right track in inquiring BEFORE departure. Make sure you have an attorney competent in the field.

If you are feeling adventuresome -- read Matter of Kane, 15 I&N Dec. 258 (BIA 1975) and Matter of Huang 19 I&N Dec. 749 (BIA 1988). See also Matter of Mueller 16 I&N Dec. 637 (BIA 1978).

These are NOT the last word on the matter. But they give you the idea.
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