I94
Sep 17th 2002, 4:07 pm
#1
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
I94
Regarding the issue of visa overstay, i had been told that the INS is only aware of your actual departure date, once the I-94 card, which is returned at the port of departure, has been logged in to their system, which can take many months as an outside contractor is responsible for doing this. is this true?
Also, what happens if, as in the case of a friend, the I-94 in question was sent to the INS together with a L visa extension application whilst the person was legally in the US. Due to a change in the work place, the visa extension application was subsequently withdrawn and an application put in for a different kind of visa (H) , which was subsequently approved.
However, the potential problem arises because she was not aware that she should have left whilst the new visa app was being processed (you dont have to if it is just an extension app). Therefore, as she does not have the I94, should she just go ahead and leave the country without it, as her departure wont show up and then come back in with the approved current visa?
Complicated post, sorry but thanks for any help!
Also, what happens if, as in the case of a friend, the I-94 in question was sent to the INS together with a L visa extension application whilst the person was legally in the US. Due to a change in the work place, the visa extension application was subsequently withdrawn and an application put in for a different kind of visa (H) , which was subsequently approved.
However, the potential problem arises because she was not aware that she should have left whilst the new visa app was being processed (you dont have to if it is just an extension app). Therefore, as she does not have the I94, should she just go ahead and leave the country without it, as her departure wont show up and then come back in with the approved current visa?
Complicated post, sorry but thanks for any help!
Sep 17th 2002, 6:06 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: I94
britguy wrote:
> Regarding the issue of visa overstay, i had been told that the INS is
> only aware of your actual departure date, once the I-94 card, which is
> returned at the port of departure, has been logged in to their system,
> which can take many months as an outside contractor is responsible for
> doing this. is this true?
Precious few I-94 departure records are ever mated with their arrival
records for a million reasons. It is far too imprecise a system.
The point is though, that if the INS suspects overstay, it's not up to
them to prove that you overstayed, but up to you to prove that you
didn't, or at least establish when you did depart through such
mechanisms as credit card receipts, boarding passes for flights etc.
> Also, what happens if, as in the case of a friend, the I-94 in question
> was sent to the INS together with a L visa extension application whilst
> the person was legally in the US. Due to a change in the work place,
> the visa extension application was subsequently withdrawn and an
> application put in for a different kind of visa (H) , which was
> subsequently approved.
> However, the potential problem arises because she was not aware that she
> should have left whilst the new visa app was being processed (you dont
> have to if it is just an extension app). Therefore, as she does not have
> the I94, should she just go ahead and leave the country without it, as
> her departure wont show up and then come back in with the approved
> current visa?
There is no need to leave the US providing the change of status was done
correctly. Yes, withdrawing the L extension and changing to an H could
create a technical out of status period, but it normally is forgiven.
If not what will happen is that she will be given an I-797 approving the
employment, but refusing the change of status. The other problem
possible from this scenario is if she continued working past the date of
the L status expiry, or started H1B work before it was approved.
There are a lot of important factors wrt timing of when things happened
that can affect this. Right now, she should sit tight providing she's
not been over 6 months since the L expired, and she should consult an
immigration attorney to ensure the timing is not going to bite her.
Stuart
> Regarding the issue of visa overstay, i had been told that the INS is
> only aware of your actual departure date, once the I-94 card, which is
> returned at the port of departure, has been logged in to their system,
> which can take many months as an outside contractor is responsible for
> doing this. is this true?
Precious few I-94 departure records are ever mated with their arrival
records for a million reasons. It is far too imprecise a system.
The point is though, that if the INS suspects overstay, it's not up to
them to prove that you overstayed, but up to you to prove that you
didn't, or at least establish when you did depart through such
mechanisms as credit card receipts, boarding passes for flights etc.
> Also, what happens if, as in the case of a friend, the I-94 in question
> was sent to the INS together with a L visa extension application whilst
> the person was legally in the US. Due to a change in the work place,
> the visa extension application was subsequently withdrawn and an
> application put in for a different kind of visa (H) , which was
> subsequently approved.
> However, the potential problem arises because she was not aware that she
> should have left whilst the new visa app was being processed (you dont
> have to if it is just an extension app). Therefore, as she does not have
> the I94, should she just go ahead and leave the country without it, as
> her departure wont show up and then come back in with the approved
> current visa?
There is no need to leave the US providing the change of status was done
correctly. Yes, withdrawing the L extension and changing to an H could
create a technical out of status period, but it normally is forgiven.
If not what will happen is that she will be given an I-797 approving the
employment, but refusing the change of status. The other problem
possible from this scenario is if she continued working past the date of
the L status expiry, or started H1B work before it was approved.
There are a lot of important factors wrt timing of when things happened
that can affect this. Right now, she should sit tight providing she's
not been over 6 months since the L expired, and she should consult an
immigration attorney to ensure the timing is not going to bite her.
Stuart
Sep 17th 2002, 6:10 pm
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: I94
On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, britguy wrote:
> Regarding the issue of visa overstay, i had been told that the INS is
> only aware of your actual departure date, once the I-94 card, which is
> returned at the port of departure, has been logged in to their system,
> which can take many months as an outside contractor is responsible for
> doing this. is this true?
They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get when
swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in.
> However, the potential problem arises because she was not aware that she
> should have left whilst the new visa app was being processed (you dont
> have to if it is just an extension app). Therefore, as she does not have
> the I94, should she just go ahead and leave the country without it, as
> her departure wont show up and then come back in with the approved
> current visa?
If they actually would ask, it is easy to provide evidence that she left
on time: just show the boarding pass.
> Regarding the issue of visa overstay, i had been told that the INS is
> only aware of your actual departure date, once the I-94 card, which is
> returned at the port of departure, has been logged in to their system,
> which can take many months as an outside contractor is responsible for
> doing this. is this true?
They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get when
swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in.
> However, the potential problem arises because she was not aware that she
> should have left whilst the new visa app was being processed (you dont
> have to if it is just an extension app). Therefore, as she does not have
> the I94, should she just go ahead and leave the country without it, as
> her departure wont show up and then come back in with the approved
> current visa?
If they actually would ask, it is easy to provide evidence that she left
on time: just show the boarding pass.
Sep 17th 2002, 6:38 pm
#4
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Re: I94
Originally posted by Joachim Feise:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, britguy wrote:
> Regarding the issue of visa overstay, i had been told that the INS is
> only aware of your actual departure date, once the I-94 card, which is
> returned at the port of departure, has been logged in to their system,
> which can take many months as an outside contractor is responsible for
> doing this. is this true?
They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get when
swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in.
> However, the potential problem arises because she was not aware that she
> should have left whilst the new visa app was being processed (you dont
> have to if it is just an extension app). Therefore, as she does not have
> the I94, should she just go ahead and leave the country without it, as
> her departure wont show up and then come back in with the approved
> current visa?
If they actually would ask, it is easy to provide evidence that she left
on time: just show the boarding pass.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, britguy wrote:
> Regarding the issue of visa overstay, i had been told that the INS is
> only aware of your actual departure date, once the I-94 card, which is
> returned at the port of departure, has been logged in to their system,
> which can take many months as an outside contractor is responsible for
> doing this. is this true?
They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get when
swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in.
> However, the potential problem arises because she was not aware that she
> should have left whilst the new visa app was being processed (you dont
> have to if it is just an extension app). Therefore, as she does not have
> the I94, should she just go ahead and leave the country without it, as
> her departure wont show up and then come back in with the approved
> current visa?
If they actually would ask, it is easy to provide evidence that she left
on time: just show the boarding pass.
"They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get when
swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in"
is this true? does anyone else know anything about this - it sounds like a quantum leap forward in IT technology for the INS
Sep 18th 2002, 5:14 pm
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: I94
britguy wrote:
> Originally posted by Joachim Feise:
> > They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have
> > heard
> > that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they
> > get when
> > swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in.
[ ... ]
> "They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
> that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get
> when
> swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in"
> is this true? does anyone else know anything about this - it sounds like
> a quantum leap forward in IT technology for the INS
I tend to doubt anyone reading this group could (or would, if it's true)
verify this.
> Originally posted by Joachim Feise:
> > They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have
> > heard
> > that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they
> > get when
> > swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in.
[ ... ]
> "They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
> that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get
> when
> swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in"
> is this true? does anyone else know anything about this - it sounds like
> a quantum leap forward in IT technology for the INS
I tend to doubt anyone reading this group could (or would, if it's true)
verify this.
Sep 18th 2002, 5:36 pm
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: I94
L D Jones wrote:
> britguy wrote:
>>Originally posted by Joachim Feise:
>>>They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have
>>>heard
>>>that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they
>>>get when
>>>swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in.
>>is this true? does anyone else know anything about this - it sounds like
>>a quantum leap forward in IT technology for the INS
> I tend to doubt anyone reading this group could (or would, if it's true)
> verify this.
My source for this is the LA-based lawyer Ron Gotcher
(http://www.imminfo.com/),
who mentioned it on his discussion forum
(http://imm-
igration-information.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137).
-Joe
> britguy wrote:
>>Originally posted by Joachim Feise:
>>>They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have
>>>heard
>>>that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they
>>>get when
>>>swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in.
>>is this true? does anyone else know anything about this - it sounds like
>>a quantum leap forward in IT technology for the INS
> I tend to doubt anyone reading this group could (or would, if it's true)
> verify this.
My source for this is the LA-based lawyer Ron Gotcher
(http://www.imminfo.com/),
who mentioned it on his discussion forum
(http://imm-
igration-information.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137).
-Joe
Sep 18th 2002, 7:43 pm
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: I94
britguy wrote:
> "They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
> that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get
> when
> swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in"
> is this true? does anyone else know anything about this - it sounds like
> a quantum leap forward in IT technology for the INS
They've been doing this for a while now, I wanna say more than a year.
The airline ticket agents swipes my passport prior to flying out of the
U.S., the INS agent swipes it and also my green card when I return. I
can't say for sure, but the INS agent always just seems to know when I
left, i.e., they never asked me how long I was gone.
Thorsten
> "They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
> that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get
> when
> swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in"
> is this true? does anyone else know anything about this - it sounds like
> a quantum leap forward in IT technology for the INS
They've been doing this for a while now, I wanna say more than a year.
The airline ticket agents swipes my passport prior to flying out of the
U.S., the INS agent swipes it and also my green card when I return. I
can't say for sure, but the INS agent always just seems to know when I
left, i.e., they never asked me how long I was gone.
Thorsten
Sep 19th 2002, 1:11 am
#8
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Re: I94
[QUOTE][SIZE=1]Originally posted by Thorsten:
britguy wrote:
> "They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
> that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get
> when
> swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in"
> is this true? does anyone else know anything about this - it sounds like
> a quantum leap forward in IT technology for the INS
They've been doing this for a while now, I wanna say more than a year.
The airline ticket agents swipes my passport prior to flying out of the
U.S., the INS agent swipes it and also my green card when I return. I
can't say for sure, but the INS agent always just seems to know when I
left, i.e., they never asked me how long I was gone.
Actually info from a government site on congressional hearings about the issue says that the INS does not collect information this way. They only collect such info through manual processing of collec ted I-94 cards. The Patriot Act 2001 and an INS information reform act of 2000 state that a more efficient system will be developed over the next few years for collecting entry and exit information at these points - ultimately probably using biometric technology. The info that the airlines collect is via the passenger manifest which is forwarded by some airlines for security reasons. As of January next, all airlines will have to forward their manifests, both arriving and departing internationally. This is also on the INS web site.
Hope it is all clarified now!
some
britguy wrote:
> "They also get the passenger manifest from the airline, and I have heard
> that recently, the airlines also forward to INS the information they get
> when
> swiping a machine-readable passport when you check in"
> is this true? does anyone else know anything about this - it sounds like
> a quantum leap forward in IT technology for the INS
They've been doing this for a while now, I wanna say more than a year.
The airline ticket agents swipes my passport prior to flying out of the
U.S., the INS agent swipes it and also my green card when I return. I
can't say for sure, but the INS agent always just seems to know when I
left, i.e., they never asked me how long I was gone.
Actually info from a government site on congressional hearings about the issue says that the INS does not collect information this way. They only collect such info through manual processing of collec ted I-94 cards. The Patriot Act 2001 and an INS information reform act of 2000 state that a more efficient system will be developed over the next few years for collecting entry and exit information at these points - ultimately probably using biometric technology. The info that the airlines collect is via the passenger manifest which is forwarded by some airlines for security reasons. As of January next, all airlines will have to forward their manifests, both arriving and departing internationally. This is also on the INS web site.
Hope it is all clarified now!
some
