elfman

Journalists and commentators have been falling over themsleves to draw parallels between Iraq and Vietnam, but I think a more appropriate comparison has been overlooked. Quiz - how said the following and what was he talking about:

There is the case of _____. I have tried hard, and yet I cannot for the life of me comprehend how we got into that mess. Perhaps we could not have avoided it - perhaps it was inevitable that we should come to be fighting the natives of ______ - but I cannot understand it, and have never been able to get at the bottom of the origin of our antagonism to the natives. I thought we should act as their protector - not try to get them under our heel. We were to relieve them from tyranny to enable them to set up a government of their own, and we were to stand by and see that it got a fair trial. It was not to be a government according to our ideas, but a government that represented the feeling of the majority of the _____, a government according to _____ ideas. That would have been a worthy mission for the United States. But now - why, we have got into a mess, a quagmire from which each fresh step renders the difficulty of extrication immensely greater. I'm sure I wish I could see what we were getting out of it, and all it means to us as a nation.

peterbainham

Anthony Eden - Suez Crisis?

scrubbedexpat099

Nice one.

I will guess the Spanish American War and a reference to the Phillipines?

If it was not, could well have applied.

peterbainham

You're right, it was the Phillipines and I'm pretty sure it was Mark Twain who said it. Are we correct?

Bob

Philippine-American War

Bob

yup.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp...ion_to_the_war

It sounded familiar as the missus had quoted it in a paper a few weeks back, but couldn't remember who said it, so a quick history search found it..

gruffbrown

Is that the one that broke out over Mail order brides?

elfman

Indeed.
The parallels are pretty spooky - right down to the civilian deaths and the widespread use of torture by US forces.

Bob

thought that was the ruskies?

Angry White Pyjamas

IF the EU plays it's cards right it will be the next superpower.

It really does seem that America is on the decline, albeit only just onto the downward slope. Right now it's like standing up in 1901 saying "The British Empire is declining and the USA will be the next superpower". No one would beleive you at that point

Remember that the fall of an empire does not also mean the fall of the nexus of the empire. In this case the Republic of the (Continental) USA. It means the loss of its periphery control. And that happens when its returns from its extended control network dimish to a point where it can no longer sustain them. Thats when an empire starts to contract back in on itself and the hub country or state is no longer seen as a world superpower.

This is an interesting read:

http://www.transnational.org/forum/m...mpireFall.html

mayflower_compact

It's hard to say what will happen. I look at the last 15 years as an anomaly..the US is currently the sole superpower since the Soviet Union broke up in 1991. When the British and French colonia empire broke up it created a lot of independent countries. Since US territory is largely confined to North America (with the exception of Guam, Virgin islands, etc) I don't see that happening.

In my personal view that is largely based on history I see America remaining ONE of SEVERAL powers with China and India for the forseeable future.

I don't think the EU can get it together. The majority of British citizens want to leave it, the referendums last year failed, and the economies of France and Germany are going to continue to contract as long as they stay on their present course. Additionally, the EU habit of expanding into poor Eastern Europe will not help things either.

Europe is dead...the EU is bloated, the French continue to surrender to their own citizens and aliens....

India and China have no respect for a 35 hour work week...and they'll work without all the benfits that are expected in Europe.

scrubbedexpat099

Possible, well I guess, but everything about this so contradicts the history of the EU.

I really can not see it surviving anything major, too many conflicting interests.

Manc

No offense, but just because we hear the media stating "lone super power" doesn't make it so.

Just exactly why is the USA a lone super power?
economically? militarily?

what constitutes a super power?

It's all very well kicking f**k out of third world countries in the middle east, but it's no good when your great grandkids will still be paying for it.

mayflower_compact

Yes I agree....if it stayed true to its original intent then I think it could be very successful. But it has expanded to try to be the United States of Europe and a lot of the people do not want that.

The European Rapid Reaction force is a joke...one of the members of the EU (Cyprus) still requires a permanent UN presence.

As much as military action is a last resort, Europe needs to prove that it has the will and the way to tackle threats if necessary. We all know what a mess the UN is.

scrubbedexpat099

I thought the Chinese were paying for it.