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HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Old Apr 9th 2008, 12:31 am
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Default HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

I am looking at buying a condo unit but the HOA wont show us the CCR's and minutes before we make an offer and put on an earnest money in which is refundable in 5 days . But aside from the condition of the condo unit,the determing factor on how much is my offer will be based on what is written on CCR's and minutes and the future plan of the HOA.

Is this a norm in buying a property in US with HOA?
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 12:49 am
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Originally Posted by Jholmes View Post
I am looking at buying a condo unit but the HOA wont show us the CCR's and minutes before we make an offer and put on an earnest money in which is refundable in 5 days . But aside from the condition of the condo unit,the determing factor on how much is my offer will be based on what is written on CCR's and minutes and the future plan of the HOA.

Is this a norm in buying a property in US with HOA?
Can't the owner get them for you? Seems as if they would be a member of the HOA and entitled to see what you are asking for. With the property market failing in most parts of the country I can't imagine why they wouldn't help you out unless there us something really bad they are trying to hide (No foreigners allowed? :-))
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 1:23 am
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

If you can't see the minutes and CC&R's, I wouldn't proceed with a purchase. Normally you can get get the seller to produce them, particularly if you make it a contingency of the offer. In fact, I think I've seen at least the minutes of every place I've looked at without making an offer. Personally, I'd never buy a condo without this information. The minutes - and you should stipulate several years worth - are often a gold mine of information as to what's going on in a development.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Apr 9th 2008 at 1:25 am.
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 2:15 am
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Thanks for the info.
I will try to ask my buyer agent to talk to property owner if they can produce one.
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 2:17 am
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

i cant for the life of me think why they wouldnt - unless there is something to hide.
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 2:30 am
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

I live in an area with a very secretive HOA. While they can keep the minutes of meetings from all but members, the covenants and restrictions MUST be filed with the deeds to the properties (at least in Texas). I agree in principle that I wouldn't buy under these conditions -- I bugged my own HOA before I bought to see everything and they obliged for the most part but told a big un about their plans with the property on my property line (was undeveloped ranch land when I moved in and now it ain't).

States are starting to regulate HOAs as they should do. Perhaps someone who specialises in condo sales would know where the covenants and restrictions are filed.
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 2:45 am
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Originally Posted by Jholmes View Post
I am looking at buying a condo unit but the HOA wont show us the CCR's and minutes before we make an offer and put on an earnest money in which is refundable in 5 days . But aside from the condition of the condo unit,the determing factor on how much is my offer will be based on what is written on CCR's and minutes and the future plan of the HOA.

Is this a norm in buying a property in US with HOA?
new one on me. Now, they may have to be intstructed by the owner to supply a copy etc to you but that's usually rare.

Most of the time, not all the time, CCRs are recorded docs and you can get a copy through a title company/ recorder's office. Minutes and budget reports aren't recorded so you have to obtain them via the management company, seller etc.

Either - 1. Tell them to shove a pole up their wazoo 2. walk the other way. 3. Turn up at their office with a child and/or limp and cane and ask them "Should I interpret your actions as discriminatory and potential violation of Fair Housing and also American with Disabilities Act? Maybe I should file a complaint with the state regulatory department..." just for kicks to see what they do... 4. Knock on the door of your future neighbor - ask them questions about the HOA etc.

Curious, where is this happening?

Ask them if there are any special asessments in the works... the budget report and reserves should indicate if somethings up.. Oh, you might also want to enquire about who the hoa uses as insurance and also examine their insurance policy. what about the ccr's are you concerned about?
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 2:49 am
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Originally Posted by snowbunny View Post
I live in an area with a very secretive HOA.

States are starting to regulate HOAs as they should do. Perhaps someone who specialises in condo sales would know where the covenants and restrictions are filed.
I file mine under "[email protected] Orf".

HOAs can't have closed doors meetings... its illegal.
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 4:55 am
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Originally Posted by Tarkak9 View Post
I file mine under "[email protected] Orf".

HOAs can't have closed doors meetings... its illegal.
Very much depends on where you live unless there's a federal law I'm unaware of. It's perfectly legal here and the media, for example, used to try to get into the meetings. They have certain duties towards their members and if they are a non-profit (most are and do not pay taxes on the dues they collect) but they aren't bound to comply with a FOA request, for example. They are quasi-governmental entities, though, and more and more cities and states are beginning to recognise this and enact laws accordingly.
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 5:32 am
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

If I were in your position I would be asking myself whether I really wanted to buy a condo where the HOA was a bunch of jerks ...
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 5:46 am
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Of course, you are entitled to see the CC&R's. You should be extremely suspicious if they won't show them to you, although you could be walking into someone's personal pissing contest, i.e. a HOA member who dislikes the seller and wants to make their transaction difficult. Nonetheless, that failure to disclose would be enough to make me back out.

You should also demand a copy of the most recent balance sheet and the last couple of years' worth of operating statements. Make sure that the reserves are adequately funded and that they aren't mismanaging the expenses.

Also, find out what proportion of the residents are renters vs. owners. In most cases, I'd avoid a complex with a high population of renters.
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 3:03 pm
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Originally Posted by snowbunny View Post
Very much depends on where you live unless there's a federal law I'm unaware of. It's perfectly legal here and the media, for example, used to try to get into the meetings. They have certain duties towards their members and if they are a non-profit (most are and do not pay taxes on the dues they collect) but they aren't bound to comply with a FOA request, for example. They are quasi-governmental entities, though, and more and more cities and states are beginning to recognise this and enact laws accordingly.
I think it does depend where you live... what they certainly can't have is a closed meetings about n'hood stuff nor a board meeting specifically about the likes of you or something like that... they can't seclude nor exclude their members from any form of a meeting - if you want to attend you can't be denied to attend.
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 3:11 pm
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Having read some of the stories from people on this forum, I have to wonder why people have such a great desire to live under the rule of a bunch of octogenarian curtain-twitchers.

Seriously, why do people live with HOA regulations over the way they are allowed to maintain and present the building and property which they purchased?

If anyone tried to tell me how long my grass was to be cut or limit me regarding what could or could not be put in my back yard, they'd be told where to go in no uncertain terms.

The whole idea of HOA's just comes across as complete fascism, people living in places where they need to conform to rules or risk being ejected. Bollocks to that!
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 3:25 pm
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Originally Posted by CitySimon View Post
Having read some of the stories from people on this forum, I have to wonder why people have such a great desire to live under the rule of a bunch of octogenarian curtain-twitchers.

Seriously, why do people live with HOA regulations over the way they are allowed to maintain and present the building and property which they purchased?

If anyone tried to tell me how long my grass was to be cut or limit me regarding what could or could not be put in my back yard, they'd be told where to go in no uncertain terms.

The whole idea of HOA's just comes across as complete fascism, people living in places where they need to conform to rules or risk being ejected. Bollocks to that!
We actually like our HOA, but then again we are in a condo complex. They are generally very "on the ball", and we have no grumbles at all. This is the 5th property we have owned; we can be quite anally retentive about home-ownership issues and we are happy.

We tried to push the boundaries by asking for permission to have a solar tube installed. I can understand their reasons for saying no.
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Old Apr 9th 2008, 3:30 pm
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Default Re: HOA wont show the CCR & minutes

Originally Posted by CitySimon View Post
Having read some of the stories from people on this forum, I have to wonder why people have such a great desire to live under the rule of a bunch of octogenarian curtain-twitchers.

Seriously, why do people live with HOA regulations over the way they are allowed to maintain and present the building and property which they purchased?

If anyone tried to tell me how long my grass was to be cut or limit me regarding what could or could not be put in my back yard, they'd be told where to go in no uncertain terms.

The whole idea of HOA's just comes across as complete fascism, people living in places where they need to conform to rules or risk being ejected. Bollocks to that!
It's often less a case of wanting to live there as opposed to there being little choice. If a family wants a house in a particular neighborhood because of good schools, proximity to work, etc., there might be little choice.

I don't live in an HOA area, but the city does inspect all properties periodically and issues violation notices. We've been dinged a few times... annoying, but nothing to make a federal case about. So the flip side is that all properties are generally well maintained and look good. I'm not defending zealous enforcement of petty rules, but HOAs aren't ALL bad.
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