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Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Old Feb 13th 2008, 10:59 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

JG, some people were working to your values, but they lost their jobs, used their savings, had no money for the next mortgage payment so they refied to get cash or took a home equity loan to pay the mortgage. It was a gamble to keep their equity in their home. It was that or walk away.

X. I am a child of the depression. A financial advisor looked at my portfolio and said, "It's aggressive, hell no, at your age, it's adventurous".

He was looking at my long term stuff, not my near term. We have no idea how long we will be around, could be a long time yet, got to cover for inflation.
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 11:33 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
Sorry that's not the way I was brought up...you do not borrow to pay of loans....if you can't pay for it you can't have it. That's what I live by and what I have (hopefully) instilled in my daughter. A mortgage is acceptable but do not borrow the max...the sooner you can pay it off the better IMHO.
HERE HERE!!
If you cannot afford it you cannot have it.
Too many people see something they want and they don't have to pay for it now. Living outside of their means. Spending more than they make.
No offense but how is that ever going to end well?

My mother inlaw was the perfect example.
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 1:16 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Originally Posted by paddingtongreen View Post
JG, some people were working to your values, but they lost their jobs, used their savings, had no money for the next mortgage payment so they refied to get cash or took a home equity loan to pay the mortgage. It was a gamble to keep their equity in their home. It was that or walk away.

X. I am a child of the depression. A financial advisor looked at my portfolio and said, "It's aggressive, hell no, at your age, it's adventurous".

He was looking at my long term stuff, not my near term. We have no idea how long we will be around, could be a long time yet, got to cover for inflation.
I realise some people have a lot of bad luck ie job loss, healthcare costs etc so they take out a home equity loan...I'm not talking about people in that position. Many use the loan for a holiday, furniture etc...then when interest rates rise or they hit hard times they can't afford to pay it back.
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 4:57 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
Sorry that's not the way I was brought up...you do not borrow to pay of loans....if you can't pay for it you can't have it. That's what I live by and what I have (hopefully) instilled in my daughter. A mortgage is acceptable but do not borrow the max...the sooner you can pay it off the better IMHO.
Yes...that's exactly the way we live...and I always have,and instilled it into my sons as well...if you want something badly enough,it's worth saving for....we've got several credit cards, but rarely use them,when we got the mortgage,we knew exactly how much we wanted to pay per month,and refused to go any higher,even though the Realtor kept on at us that we could afford much more,we bought a modest little house which needed some remodelling,which my husband has been doing,and it will be paid completely this summer....it's a lovely feeling to know we don't owe anyone anything.
It's unbelieveable to know that a lot of the people who work at the prison with my husband,earning good money for this area,are literally living from one paycheck to the next...but then they've got the expensive house and both drive brand new vehicles...but that's the choice they made!
I know there are unfortunate exceptions, but I'd go crazy if we lived like that!!,I just couldn't live that way....
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 5:31 pm
  #35  
 
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Originally Posted by Xebedee View Post
Bit by bit, I'm getting more frugal.
It helps that I was brought up in England in an atmosphere where things were saved for and valued. Buying on the knock was frowned on.

Its feels good and useful to not be so wastefull - as you say, economising on aluminuminum foil is one of many ways to ultimately save a few pennies.

Despite some CC debt, which is getting paid off slowly and will be gone this year. I am saving as much as possible at the mo. For various reasons, but also because if the menudo hits the fan, there will be a lot of people who are two paychecks from the poor house.

I'm also going to teach myself how to grow some fruit and veggies this summer.
May even put up an alotment shed to add to the effect.
Going to need a flat cap.
I like living frugally.. I'm no aluminum foil hoarder, but I've got by very well for someone who doesn't really have a j o b. Keep those cars paid off (did you see our new El Camino? <g>) and watch it with the credit cards. Don't go shopping for entertainment. Don't mindlessly eat out (I was guilty of this one.. that shiny thing in the kitchen is called a 'cooker'? and apparently it heats up food from raw to edible!) and rathole your money.
You never know when a great opportunity, or tragedy, will strike.

Drop me a note if you ever want to chat gardening. I don't grow too much atm, but have got lots of friends who grow a substantial amount of their groceries! Plus its fun.
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 6:01 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

As a college prof on a (half) decent wage, I could never figure out how everyone else seemed to drive brand new SUV's and watched TV on their 50 inch plasma while I was driving a piece of crap and watching TV on my 15 inch CRT. Then one of my American friends told me: "They're in debt up to their eyeballs." Me, I saved enough in 10 years to pay off my mortgage.

It seems to me that Americans need to spend less and save more. Problem is, if they do that, the economy will collapse because it's run on consumerism - if no-one is buying stuff, people will lose their jobs and then the rot sets in. As I've said before, all I know about economics, I learned from Forrest Gump.

I don't hoard aluminium foil, but I do re-use Ziploc bags (several times).
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 6:34 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
It seems to me that Americans need to spend less and save more. Problem is, if they do that, the economy will collapse because it's run on consumerism - if no-one is buying stuff, people will lose their jobs and then the rot sets in. As I've said before, all I know about economics, I learned from Forrest Gump.
Yeah but no but.... (I learned from Vicki P)

spending is okay when the purchases are wise. We do ourselves no favours by spending overseas in the quantity that we do.... also no favours by our huge military spending. We need to buy American and to do so, we need American choices. Might be more expensive but as you say, we do not need so much crap.
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 6:54 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

On all of the above, I think it's worth saying that although it seems like this is happening only in the US, I believe it's also happening in the UK: people have been going out, buying flash cars and holidays on credit or on the basis of unsustainable house price increases. Fine if people realize the latter is a windfall and will never come again, and if they realizing they're sacrificing that money in the future by spending it now, but if they don't...they're shagged.

Originally Posted by snowbunny View Post
We need to buy American and to do so, we need American choices.
I'm not sure I agree with that - protectionism always ends up backfiring where consumers end up propping up tired and inefficient domestic manufacturers. Manufacturers can't rely on selling to captive domestic markets, and we (the US) implement restrictions on imports, we'll get locked out of growing foreign markets.

Just look at the agriculture (US) and car markets (US and Australia), both of which are heavily protected for the sake of a small number of domestic companies: consumers pay more for products which are better or cheaper made overseas.
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 7:11 pm
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

I saw a suggestion yesterday.. instead of buying a Chinese made flatscreen with you upcoming rebate check, spend it on services if you *must* spend it.
Get a massage, have your windows cleaned, a spring housecleaning etc

That way the money truly gets recycled into the home economy.
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 7:13 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

And if you really must have a flatscreen TV, Olevias are made in Ontario, CA or Industry, CA (happened to read an article about it this morning).

But I'll be saving my check (if and when I get it).

An interesting article in Time magazine:

"As customers browse among the cashmere sweaters and compact-disc players, many are having doubts not only about this month's expenditures but also about their whole philosophy of buy, buy, buy. The stock-market crash and the likelihood of an economic slowdown have rekindled the feeling that Americans must reform their spendthrift ways."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...6241-1,00.html

Oh, it's from 1987 - but much of the same applies!

Last edited by lapin_windstar; Feb 13th 2008 at 7:19 pm.
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 7:38 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Originally Posted by lapin_windstar View Post
I'm not sure I agree with that - protectionism always ends up backfiring where consumers end up propping up tired and inefficient domestic manufacturers. Manufacturers can't rely on selling to captive domestic markets, and we (the US) implement restrictions on imports, we'll get locked out of growing foreign markets.

Just look at the agriculture (US) and car markets (US and Australia), both of which are heavily protected for the sake of a small number of domestic companies: consumers pay more for products which are better or cheaper made overseas.
When the consumer is the one choosing to spend on a domestic product, rather than being prevented from buying foreign, they can assess value for money. Current spending is based on buying a shitload of low quality stuff. Quality has gone out the window as a buying criteria. If instead we bought quality, we'd buy less stuff but also not have to replace it as often. Disregarding the environment for a moment, does anyone really want to eat on paper plates year-round? Sure, they are cheaper at the time of purchase, but you have to keep replacing them, they aren't as good as pottery-based plates, and you end up spending more over a lifetime.

The clothing market has been able to justify poorly made clothing because it whirls the fashions around faster. This may appeal to the young, but it does NOT appeal to me. Same for shoes.
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Old Feb 13th 2008, 10:57 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Originally Posted by meauxna View Post
Drop me a note if you ever want to chat gardening. I don't grow too much atm, but have got lots of friends who grow a substantial amount of their groceries! Plus its fun.
You are on.
Cheers for that. Its one of the new things I want to do this year.
I have the plot already picked out in the backyard. Its about 20' square and full of triffids at the mo. A little chemical warfare and a serious rototilling session and I will be ready this spring to plant fruit and veggies. We are mid-Atlantic as far as growing goes. Humidity requiring an auqalung in the Summer. Perfect for growing anything green. EXCEPT OKRA. (banned in my place)

Originally Posted by snowbunny View Post
We need to buy American and to do so, we need American choices. Might be more expensive but as you say, we do not need so much crap.
One constant I have seen here (and I'm sure most expats see this also) is that the US offers enormous choices. Trouble is, most buy the rubbish quality (WalMart, eg) Which is fine for them who have nothing (believe me, I've been there, here and it doth sucketh) but after a while, if you can afford it, you want quality don't you? So now, I'd much rather wait, save and buy something decent than buy the junky TV that packs up 1wk after you chuck out the Wallyworld receipt.

Originally Posted by lapin_windstar View Post
An interesting article in Time magazine:
"As customers browse among the cashmere sweaters and compact-disc players, many are having doubts not only about this month's expenditures but also about their whole philosophy of buy, buy, buy. The stock-market crash and the likelihood of an economic slowdown have rekindled the feeling that Americans must reform their spendthrift ways."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...6241-1,00.html
Oh, it's from 1987 - but much of the same applies!
But the lesson just hasn't been learned here. People are slightly less materialistic than they were then, but that credit demon is still as strong as ever (its sooo hard to avoid hopping on the bus here isn't it?) They have just found other ways of buying on "the knock" in addition to those little bits of plastic.
Eh?
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Old Feb 14th 2008, 12:59 am
  #43  
 
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Originally Posted by Xebedee View Post
You are on.
Cheers for that. Its one of the new things I want to do this year.
I have the plot already picked out in the backyard. Its about 20' square and full of triffids at the mo. A little chemical warfare and a serious rototilling session and I will be ready this spring to plant fruit and veggies. We are mid-Atlantic as far as growing goes. Humidity requiring an auqalung in the Summer. Perfect for growing anything green. EXCEPT OKRA. (banned in my place)
Oh noes! Don't start the chemical warfare yet.. you have pristine soil, let's keep it that way.
We get triffids too; they CAN be dealt with. And the rototilling? Well, hold off on that too. It disturbs the nematodes or something. That said, if you've got the machine, and you will promise to amend the soil...

Have you looked up what your hardiness 'zone' is? That will help you with planting timing and what will do well. And do have a list of what you'll be likely to eat and not, that is good.
The only thing you need to really shake it on is peas if you want those. They're supposed to go in on St Patricks Day night.

If you want lettuce and spinach, it could be very close to your time too. Look for your last frost free day on that map page.
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Old Feb 14th 2008, 3:03 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Hang on tight, is it going to be a bumpy ride?

Originally Posted by snowbunny View Post
When the consumer is the one choosing to spend on a domestic product, rather than being prevented from buying foreign, they can assess value for money. Current spending is based on buying a shitload of low quality stuff....Disregarding the environment for a moment, does anyone really want to eat on paper plates year-round?
I agree with you on that, absolutely. I am astonished by the number of people that eat off paper plates by choice and at home.

If I were a crazed dictator, I wouldn't put people into "political re-education centers", I'd be herding them into forced Home Economics classes.
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