Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I am considering Westchester to move to whole husband will work in manhattan. I read some posts on citi data. And it all seems so much more segregated than
London. The schools, the neighbourhoods. Especially suburbs of westchester. It's really putting me off. Have I just got the wrong impression?

It's almost like you have to be a certain colour or religion or ethicnic origin to be accepted in certain areas. Especially the good areas with the good schools?

Wish we could just live in manhattan. But with three small kids a flat isn't appealing

Have I just got the wrong idea?

Please hellppppp

Was set on westchester. Not sure now.
NJ isn't an option and manhattan queens and Bronx don't look great either for housing and schooling. Even nice parts of Brooklyn. All flats.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I don't think you would find things very different in Manhattan. Unless I misunderstand you, what you describe as "segregation" is economic -- the more expensive the neighborhood, the less diverse the residents. And indeed, the "better" neighborhoods do have better schools. It is the same in every town/city in the US . . . and surely, around the world?

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

In the US, K-12 are primarily financed by property taxes with contributions by federal and state governments with most of the money going to the poorest areas.

For example, in the SF bay area, the Palo Alto school district (an affluent school district) pays about $19,000 per student per year and gets less than 5% of the cost from federal and state governments but the Oakland school district (a poor school district) pays about $10,000 per student per year and gets over 50% funding from the federal and state governments.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I agree with regards to areas being separated along economic lines, but around us, the more affluent neighborhoods tend to bring more racial/ethnic/religious diversity, not less. Its one of the things I like about where we are.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

In California, the Cupertino school district (an affluent school district ranked 10 out of 10) is primarily Chinese and whites are hesitant about living in Cupertino since there are too many Tiger Moms in that district putting too much stress on their children. In Fremont, the highest ranked schools (10 out of 10) are heavily attended by Indians.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I had a nephew and niece go through Cupertino, and both did very well. They are Chinese. And no, I wouldn't particularly have wanted to live there either:lol:

Unfortunately, there are a bunch of Tiger Moms in our area too, and sometimes it takes a real effort not to get caught up in it...!

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

A problem with the Cupertino school district is that if a student is a B student, they can feel that they are a failure. Also it is heavier into the maths and sciences than most other highly rated school districts.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

What is your concern? Are you concerned that your children won't "fit in", that the white 'burbs are hot beds of Klan activity that may entice your children, or that your children won't benefit from a full range of cultural experiences that a diverse school would give your children? :confused:

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I meant more racially and religiously seggregated. My concern is that I put my daughter in a school where the majority of children from a certain affiliation are a clan and are not welcoming. Isolation for my four year old daughter. Not based on money but the fact that she's not Jewish in a predominantly Jewish area. Or not white in a predominantly white area. I live in Richmond and it's rich and fabulous but integrated and diverse.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

So those are some of the things your daughter is not, but what is she? Mrs P and I lived in Westchester for a while, but we didn't have children at the time. If we did, we would have been more than happy for them to go to school there, it seemed like a comfortable relatively safe area, and yes, predominantly white. If you could please be more specific about how you think your concerns might impact your child, not some mythical "average" child, then you will probably get more specific (useful?) advice. Richmond, Surrey, Richmond, North Yorkshire, Richmond, VA, or some other Richmond? :confused:

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

In terms of Westchester, where we live, our community, Tarrytown/Sleepy Hollow is relatively diverse. Originally it was a blue-collar community, mostly Italian and Irish, but once the old General Motors plant closed in the 90s the area has gentrified and diversified. We now have a strong Latino community, especially in Sleepy Hollow - mostly Ecuadorian and Dominican. Quite a lot of Portuguese and Brazilians, with a lot of the Portuguese being first-generation arrivals. But we have a smattering from all over, Indians, Dutch, Belgians and I hear other British accents now and then.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Trying to speak honestly without breaking site rules here...It is my opinion that opinions and information presented on some websites should be taken with a grain of salt. In some cases, perhaps a boulder of salt. I can't speak about the area of the US you're looking at, but what I can say is that the internet is a big place, and you should definitely take in opinions from several different websites and go with what seems to be the most common opinions.

Let's see if this passes muster with the rules! :)

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Yes and No. Westchester is for the most part a Tony Suburb of Manhattan. As such it was at one time very "white". But then at the times of their incorporation, most immigrants were "white" or transplants from the southern states in the 1850's upward who won their freedom.

The towns' immediate areas adjacent to the business district were where one found apartments and tenenments. This was mainly because when they were established blue collar workers relied on public transportation to get to and from work. White collar workers were those who were earning monies who could afford to purchase single family homes and automobiles and thus you have what is currently your segregated areas of these Tony Towns; or those with family money.

This is why there are towns that appear to be segregated to newcomers. Good schools will always be an issue in the US and particularly here in the NYC area. That issue and your preceived segregation encompasses, Westchester County, NY to the north, Long Island to the east and New Jersey to the west.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

No matter where you move you'll find it hard find somewhere that is as integrated and diverse as London.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

We must be looking through two different types of glasses.

New York City:

White: 44.6%
Black 25.1%
Hispanic: 27.5%
Asian 11.8%
Foreign Born: 36%

San Francisco:

White: 49.66%
Black: 7.99%
Asian: 30.84%
Hispanic: 14.1%
Foreign Born: 27%

San Jose:

White: 47.49%
Black: 3.5%
Asian: 26.5%
Hispanic: 31.6%
Foreign Born 38%

I'm not even sure that London is as diverse as Minneapolis, MN.

White: 70.2%
Black: 17.4%
Asian: 4.9%
Hispanic: 9.2%
Foreign Born: 9%

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

On this occasion, Michael, I'll agree with you. The breakdown for London is as follows:-

White: 59.7%
Black: 13.3%
Asian: 18.4% (Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi: 12.0%, Chinese: 1.5%, Other Asian: 4.9%)
Other: 3.4%
Mixed: 5.0%

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

And are these ethnicities really living in mingled proximity? This isn't a rhetorical question -- I haven't been to London for many years and don't know the answer.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I don't know about New York but in LA, the availability of land has meant that 'white flight' has always taken place. In London, inner areas get gentrified; that doesn't seem to happen here, although I believe there are some attempts with downtown, a very dead and faded area.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I don't know, and don't even know how you could reduce the degree of integration to a single easy to compare statistic, but I suspect the degree of "ghettoization" in most countries around the world is broadly similar. Certainly in London and most cities I am familiar with in the UK and the US, ethnic groups generally live in certain neighborhoods in each city, often centered around a church, mosque, or other community focal point, or occasionally an industrial area.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

That is my feeling too -- but I see it these days as being based in economic, rather than racial considerations in the majority of instances.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Actually I'm a little surprised that London is only 59.7% white. In New York City, San Francisco, and San Jose, I can't go to work, walk down the street, or move into a neighborhood without being in close proximity to non whites but I don't sense the same in London.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

The next time you're in London, walk north from the Tower of London for 5-10 minutes to Aldgate, and the Mile End Road, and you'll swear you're in Lahore! Even the street names are dual language, English and a Pakistani alphabet (I don't recall which one). Turn onto Brick Lane and about every third store is a curry house, and they're very good, and dirt cheap to boot! .... Or take a Jack the Ripper walking tour, because it is the same area, and interestingly in Victorian times it was a predominantly Jewish area! Even Bloom's the somewhat famous kosher restaurant on Aldgate has closed, though it hung on until 1996.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Actually I remember the area before it became Asian and I do not go back as far as the Victorian area. I used to work in Aldgate in the early 70's.

Dirt cheap may be relative, my preference was the Lahore down Commercial Road, but that has gone a bit swanky.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

The Lahore Kebab House, in that little side street just off Commercial Rd? .... I ate there a number of times in the mid 90's! :)

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Ha, that was a regular of ours too, in the late 80s/early 90s.....think it must have been a different place that Boiler was talking about, cos swanky it was not!

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I used to go there with a friend who said the Daal was better than his Mum could make, a big thing.

It was certainly a bit of a rat hole, last time I was in there was nearly 2 years ago, much much bigger ground floor, colour TV's, very different.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

The diversity is there in the city like you pointed
out. But the neighbourhoods are seggregated in ny. In London it's much more integrated.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I wouldn't call Westchester NY or Greenwich CT a suburb of NYC any more than I would call Dover or South Hampton a suburb of London.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Westchester adjoins the Bronx, and is substantially a dormitory for NYC, so it IS a suburb of NYC. Commuting from Greenwich is much more challenging to commute from, and is perhaps comparable to, say, Brighton, Swindon, or Cambridge.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Westchester is at least 25 miles from the Bronx and about 40 miles from Manhattan but I suppose since White Plains is considered part of the NYC greater metropolitan area, then Westchester could possibly be considered a suburb of NYC. Actually I found commuting from Greenwich to NYC pretty easy and has a good train schedule.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Your daughter is British. Are you going to look for an area that's predominantly British?

What does it matter if your child is a different colour or religion than the other children? Surely it won't affect her learning to be in a classroom with Jews or white children. It never hurt my children as non-practicing 1/2 Jewish 1/2 Russian Orthodox going to a school with children in a vast range of colours and religions.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

No! Westchester adjoins the Bronx, they share a county border, so in some sense getting from the Bronx to Westchester is a zero distance journey! :rolleyes:The southern most point of Westchester is (just)11 miles from Columbus Circle, the customary point for measuring distances to/from Manhattan. FWIW White Plains, the county seat of Westchester is 26 miles from Columbus Circle, so maybe that is what you're thinking of, and White Plains certainly is very commutable to Manhattan.I had an 8am start in NYC, and despite working just a couple of blocks from Grand Central, I decided that commuting from CT was impractical, because it would have meant an insanely long day.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

You are correct. I didn't think she was referring to the Yonkers area but further north near White Plains. My bad for making assumptions.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Actually Westchester County abuts the Bronx. I live on said border. And yes, Westchester County was and is considered the bedroom community of NYC, i.e. suburb of Manhattan. I live in Yonkers, approximately 100 yards from the Bronx and 25 miles from 42nd Street in Manhattan.

I've never heard that White Plains is considered part of the NYC greater metropolitan area. Please give the link that supports this.

Remember Westchester is a COUNTY and is comprised of many towns and villages. Westchester is not a city, in and of itself.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

There are other towns, besides Yonkers, that abut the Bronx, i.e. Phelam Manor, New Rochelle, Mt. Vernon.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I've commuted from Brewster, the terminus on the Harlem line of Metro North, and from Danbury, a terminus on a spur of the New Haven line. The length of commute was pretty similar, but the killer is always the parking. If you actually live in the town you commute from you get first dibs on a parking pass; if you don't, you hope for the best on a metered space -- which may be OK if you leave at the crack of dawn, but for folks like me who can't get up in the morning, it's hopeless.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

So I was right to flee NY (all commuting options looked unattractive or worse, among other factors) rather than buying the best I could afford to the north of NYC. :)

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

I've seen them lumped together on several cost of living calculators such as the following. I'm not sure what they are referring to when they include White Plains in the name.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/...131231181731:s

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Great little place - a London office staff fav! They took me there several times in 2009.

Re: Had a shock reading some citi data forums. So much seggregation!
 

Per the US Census web site: NYC metropolitan area.