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Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

Old Jul 9th 2013, 8:50 pm
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Question Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

Hi, I am new to this site and joined as I desperate for an answer. I was granted my petition yesterday for removal from UK jurisdiction to relocate to the USA with my children. I am a UK citizen and my husband is a US citizen. My ex currently pays child maintenance through the CSA via a Deduction from earnings order. My ex told me flat out and to the judge he will cease payments once I relocate as he will now need those funds to fund his flights for visits to the USA. The judge made his displeasure known but said once I leave the UK jurisdiction he has no power over current payments. It would be for my ex to have a moral obligation rather than legal obligation. Is this true? What about REMO? Could the judge have ordered a maintenance order as well? Or do I have to go the USA courts to obtain any child maintenance from my ex here in the UK? A slightly confused person here!!!!! Any help would be gratefully received.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 8:57 pm
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

You are lucky to get permission to move. US courts have no jurisdiction over a UK child maintenance payments so chances are you won't see any more once you move. At least he's planning on using the money to come and see his children.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 9:36 pm
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

I believe certain US states have reciprocal agreements with the UK over child support agreements meaning a UK order is enforceable through the state courts and vice versa. There is no overall US-UK agreement though (most law enforcement in the US is handled at the state level, not federal).

This is a good link with the states participating.

http://www.passportsusa.com/family/s...port_2615.html

Also contact reunite.org for more information on cross-border custody issues.

The US State Department has a website with more information on how to proceed.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/css

Last edited by penguinsix; Jul 10th 2013 at 6:52 am.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 11:05 pm
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

This is something I wouldn't want to take advice on an Internet forum about. Your ex if pursued for maintenance payments might well have a good case to seek an order for you to pay his visitation costs to the US, above what similar visits in the UK would have cost. Or to get the court to order you to pay the full costs of sending the children if old enough, or taking if not, to the UK for visits each year. Professional advice is needed in such circumstances to understand the implications of what you intend to do.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 11:51 pm
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

Without knowing the ins and outs of you or your kids relationship with your ex.

What would be in your kids best interests? Visits from there Dad where they can spend quality time with him, or money?

While I can appreciate you want to get on with your life, and a move to the US is what you want, your ex is still their Dad and should be able to see them. Think about how you would feel if this was the other way around and he was moving to the other side of the world with your children.

I mean this in no way as a judgmental view, just trying to put a different perspective on it.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 1:00 am
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

On a thread several months ago, there was a woman trying to negotiate removal of her children with her ex and he initially demanded that she pay the costs for an annual trip (plane fare, logging, car rental, etc.) for him to come to the US to see the children and annual plane fares for the children to go to the UK to visit him during the summer. She didn't want to leave it up to the courts since her ex was always involved in their children's lives and the courts usually don't want to grant removal requests based on the fact that a parent found a new love interest overseas so she agreed.

However before he signed the agreement, he then demanded that someone escort the children (aged 13 and 10) to and from the UK during the summer visits. She never posted back to tell us whether she finally agreed to the new terms or if she took the risk and went to court.

She could have possibly have agreed and later broke the agreement since once the children have been removed, jurisdiction becomes fuzzy and possibly difficult to enforce but that is similar to child support agreements. However if she did break the agreement, he could also possibly get an injunction to keep the children in the UK if the children ever again visited the UK. Everything can get very messy when children are removed from the jurisdiction from a country. One parent may feel that they got the upper hand but when that happens, generally there is a round 2, 3, 4, etc. and nobody knows who will eventually get the upper hand. If both parents understand each other's situation and can come to a fair and equitable arrangement, it is best to leave sleeping dogs lie.

I was in a similar situation many years ago (but with younger children) where my ex found a new love interest overseas and we worked out an amiable agreement (she didn't demand high child support and I didn't demand her to pay for trips). However if I wanted to throw a money wrench in her plans, it could have taken the courts years to resolve the removal of the children and also cost her a large amount of money for lawyers. I may have gotten some initial satisfaction but we wouldn't have had the amiable relationship that we had throughout the years (we both supported the kids through university, I purchased new cars for them when they were teenagers, and I continue to help them out as adults).

Last edited by Michael; Jul 10th 2013 at 1:42 am.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 1:31 am
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

I don't wish to be judgmental. Actually I do.

You are taking the kids away from their father, and you think you can make him continue to pay for the privilege!! If it is deduction of earnings it indicates he is not loaded, but your new husband can afford to immigrate you.

I think you will find the lack of a benefits system in USA a shock to the system.

The ex should not have to pay UK benefits to an emmigrant.

That said, the father does have a moral obligation to take care of the kids, but within reason.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 6:50 am
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
This is something I wouldn't want to take advice on an Internet forum about. Your ex if pursued for maintenance payments might well have a good case to seek an order for you to pay his visitation costs to the US, above what similar visits in the UK would have cost. Or to get the court to order you to pay the full costs of sending the children if old enough, or taking if not, to the UK for visits each year. Professional advice is needed in such circumstances to understand the implications of what you intend to do.
I would second this advice as well. We can point you in some directions here and there, but please contact the professionals for the specifics of your case.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 11:03 am
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

Thank you for all your replies - I didn't expect so many so soon!

Bit of background - I represented myself in court and agreed to bring the children back twice a year ( me paying the full costs ). Therefore I was trying to negotiate a lower amount of child maintenance when my ex declared he wasn't going to contribute a penny. Whilst I appreciate he will be paying for himself to visit once possibly twice a year on top of this (which is all good for our children) I was also hoping for a more agreeable child maintenance amount.

I just wanted to see if someone had been in the same boat and could offer some help or further advice without disparaging my ex.

I will look at some of the links mentioned above.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 11:25 am
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

To penguinsix - the two links you posted are exactly the type of advice and direction I was looking for . Thank you.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

Originally Posted by MelinUSA View Post
To penguinsix - the two links you posted are exactly the type of advice and direction I was looking for . Thank you.
I would double check with the state you are planning to live in. I was in CO and tried to enforce child support payments for my children from their father in the UK and was told there was no reciprocal agreement. That was a few years ago and it appears to have changed. Still worth double checking though.

The judge who signed the order to let me take my children out of the UK was rather surprised that their father was in agreement. At the same time, he stamped the maintenance agreement which included money for the children each month and me flying them back to the UK once a year. As soon as we moved to the States, he stopped paying. He also stopped working so it would have been like getting blood out of a stone.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 1:21 pm
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

Originally Posted by RICH View Post
I don't wish to be judgmental. Actually I do.

You are taking the kids away from their father, and you think you can make him continue to pay for the privilege!! If it is deduction of earnings it indicates he is not loaded, but your new husband can afford to immigrate you.

I think you will find the lack of a benefits system in USA a shock to the system.

The ex should not have to pay UK benefits to an emmigrant.

That said, the father does have a moral obligation to take care of the kids, but within reason.

I was hoping someone would say this
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 4:02 pm
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

Originally Posted by Egon View Post
I was hoping someone would say this
He's not paying for the privilege of her taking his children away, he's paying to support his children. It doesn't matter where they live, they are still his children and still his responsibility. I'm more surprised that the Judge gave her leave to remove them from the UK when their father was apparently so adamant that they should stay, but I don't know the whole story and it's really not my business.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 4:13 pm
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

I disagree - if he's having the child support deducted from his income enforced by the CSA (for which I used to work) and he probably has a low income, to expect that he should continue to pay for the children AND have to fund trips to see his kids is really unfair.

Talk about eating your cake and having it too.

This is something I wouldn't want to take advice on an Internet forum about. Your ex if pursued for maintenance payments might well have a good case to seek an order for you to pay his visitation costs to the US, above what similar visits in the UK would have cost. Or to get the court to order you to pay the full costs of sending the children if old enough, or taking if not, to the UK for visits each year.
I agree with this, and I hope he does so.

You are lucky to get permission to move. US courts have no jurisdiction over a UK child maintenance payments so chances are you won't see any more once you move. At least he's planning on using the money to come and see his children.
Agree with this too.

Last edited by civilservant; Jul 11th 2013 at 4:15 pm.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 5:15 pm
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Default Re: Granted removal from jurisdiction for children, can i claim maintenance for them?

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
I disagree - if he's having the child support deducted from his income enforced by the CSA (for which I used to work) and he probably has a low income, to expect that he should continue to pay for the children AND have to fund trips to see his kids is really unfair.

Talk about eating your cake and having it too.



I agree with this, and I hope he does so.



Agree with this too.
I do agree that he shouldn't have to fund trips for his children to visit him or for him to visit them. That should be provided by the mother if she's choosing to take them away, but I do think he should continue to support them at the rate he is now.

Having said that, my situation was different in that my children's father and I agreed to all the terms and he was quite happy for me to take them to the US. We split up because he wasn't that interested in being a father so I never felt like I was depriving him of his children. Looking back and knowing what I know now, I'm not sure I'd take that road again. The kids had great summer holidays back in the UK, but now they have the curse of the ex-pat and one of them has a harder time with that than the other. Not to mention that, like many others, I've now got one in each country which I didn't think about when we moved over.
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