Gaaah! Employers!!
Apr 6th 2010, 12:11 pm
#61
I'm back!
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Richmond, VA, USA
Posts: 4,316
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
Ummm... Yes it is. 
The original frustration vented by the OP was that her husband's employer asked him to produce documentation it had no legal authority to request -- and the fact that, by doing so, he felt it might lose his job if he didn't comply.
For some of you, showing the GC obviously isn't a big deal. But the point is that no one should be put in this position in the first place -- and they wouldn't be, if the employer's behavior is legal. In this case, it wasn't. I don't think it's right to put anyone down just because they don't feel like caving into pressure, particularly when a law exists to protect them from that pressure in the first place.
~ Jenney
The original frustration vented by the OP was that her husband's employer asked him to produce documentation it had no legal authority to request -- and the fact that, by doing so, he felt it might lose his job if he didn't comply.
For some of you, showing the GC obviously isn't a big deal. But the point is that no one should be put in this position in the first place -- and they wouldn't be, if the employer's behavior is legal. In this case, it wasn't. I don't think it's right to put anyone down just because they don't feel like caving into pressure, particularly when a law exists to protect them from that pressure in the first place.
~ Jenney
Apr 6th 2010, 12:31 pm
#62
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,605
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
Ummm... Yes it is.
The original frustration vented by the OP was that her husband's employer asked him to produce documentation it had no legal authority to request -- and the fact that, by doing so, he felt it might lose his job if he didn't comply.
For some of you, showing the GC obviously isn't a big deal. But the point is that no one should be put in this position in the first place -- and they wouldn't be, if the employer's behavior is legal. In this case, it wasn't. I don't think it's right to put anyone down just because they don't feel like caving into pressure, particularly when a law exists to protect them from that pressure in the first place.
~ Jenney
The original frustration vented by the OP was that her husband's employer asked him to produce documentation it had no legal authority to request -- and the fact that, by doing so, he felt it might lose his job if he didn't comply.
For some of you, showing the GC obviously isn't a big deal. But the point is that no one should be put in this position in the first place -- and they wouldn't be, if the employer's behavior is legal. In this case, it wasn't. I don't think it's right to put anyone down just because they don't feel like caving into pressure, particularly when a law exists to protect them from that pressure in the first place.
~ Jenney
Apr 6th 2010, 1:35 pm
#63
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 381
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
Some laws are just bigger (bigger? you know what I mean) than others.
* I doubt any people on this forum have murdered anyone in cold blood.
* I guarantee that everyone on here who drives has driven at 31mph in a 30mph zone.
* A lot of employers ask for an immigrants Green Card when technically they shouldn't.
It's all about common-sense.
In recent years it is now illegal for an employer to ask about your marital status, sexuality, religion, sporting preferences etc.
As long as you can judge the interviewer OK then I'm sure a lot of us make a point of getting stuff like this into the interview. It's called social small-talk. Assuming your technical skills match up to the other candidates then being the person who took the piss out of his Oakland Raiders pennant (because both you and your wife are big Broncos fans) may well get you the job.
If you mention your wife and the topic naturally comes round to 'do you have any kids?' then just answer the question in a chatty way. Ask the same question back to him. Chat about local schools or whatever. By all means answer 'that is illegal to ask that' but hey! - good luck at your next interview. I doubt if you'll be getting this job.
Just like people do 31mph in a 30mph zone - it is the way it is.
* I doubt any people on this forum have murdered anyone in cold blood.
* I guarantee that everyone on here who drives has driven at 31mph in a 30mph zone.
* A lot of employers ask for an immigrants Green Card when technically they shouldn't.
It's all about common-sense.
In recent years it is now illegal for an employer to ask about your marital status, sexuality, religion, sporting preferences etc.
As long as you can judge the interviewer OK then I'm sure a lot of us make a point of getting stuff like this into the interview. It's called social small-talk. Assuming your technical skills match up to the other candidates then being the person who took the piss out of his Oakland Raiders pennant (because both you and your wife are big Broncos fans) may well get you the job.
If you mention your wife and the topic naturally comes round to 'do you have any kids?' then just answer the question in a chatty way. Ask the same question back to him. Chat about local schools or whatever. By all means answer 'that is illegal to ask that' but hey! - good luck at your next interview. I doubt if you'll be getting this job.
Just like people do 31mph in a 30mph zone - it is the way it is.
Apr 6th 2010, 1:54 pm
#64
Queen of my house
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,043
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
Some laws are just bigger (bigger? you know what I mean) than others.
* I doubt any people on this forum have murdered anyone in cold blood.
* I guarantee that everyone on here who drives has driven at 31mph in a 30mph zone.
* A lot of employers ask for an immigrants Green Card when technically they shouldn't.
It's all about common-sense.
In recent years it is now illegal for an employer to ask about your marital status, sexuality, religion, sporting preferences etc.
As long as you can judge the interviewer OK then I'm sure a lot of us make a point of getting stuff like this into the interview. It's called social small-talk. Assuming your technical skills match up to the other candidates then being the person who took the piss out of his Oakland Raiders pennant (because both you and your wife are big Broncos fans) may well get you the job.
If you mention your wife and the topic naturally comes round to 'do you have any kids?' then just answer the question in a chatty way. Ask the same question back to him. Chat about local schools or whatever. By all means answer 'that is illegal to ask that' but hey! - good luck at your next interview. I doubt if you'll be getting this job.
Just like people do 31mph in a 30mph zone - it is the way it is.
* I doubt any people on this forum have murdered anyone in cold blood.
* I guarantee that everyone on here who drives has driven at 31mph in a 30mph zone.
* A lot of employers ask for an immigrants Green Card when technically they shouldn't.
It's all about common-sense.
In recent years it is now illegal for an employer to ask about your marital status, sexuality, religion, sporting preferences etc.
As long as you can judge the interviewer OK then I'm sure a lot of us make a point of getting stuff like this into the interview. It's called social small-talk. Assuming your technical skills match up to the other candidates then being the person who took the piss out of his Oakland Raiders pennant (because both you and your wife are big Broncos fans) may well get you the job.
If you mention your wife and the topic naturally comes round to 'do you have any kids?' then just answer the question in a chatty way. Ask the same question back to him. Chat about local schools or whatever. By all means answer 'that is illegal to ask that' but hey! - good luck at your next interview. I doubt if you'll be getting this job.
Just like people do 31mph in a 30mph zone - it is the way it is.
Apr 6th 2010, 2:13 pm
#65
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,390
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
I agree since it is the law, it should be abided by. However, I am all in favor of changing that law and making it mandatory that some proof of right to work have been authorized. For US citizens that could perhaps be a small naturalization card or perhaps a notation on a driver's license, etc.
If they are going to make the employment of illegal immigrations a finable offence, then documentation should be required that proves that the applicant has that authority.
Apr 6th 2010, 2:38 pm
#66
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
I agree since it is the law, it should be abided by. However, I am all in favor of changing that law and making it mandatory that some proof of right to work have been authorized. For US citizens that could perhaps be a small naturalization card or perhaps a notation on a driver's license, etc.
If they are going to make the employment of illegal immigrations a finable offence, then documentation should be required that proves that the applicant has that authority.
If they are going to make the employment of illegal immigrations a finable offence, then documentation should be required that proves that the applicant has that authority.
Also, both a SS card and the "Greencard" are, most likely, easily forged. I certainly wouldn't know how to verify the authenticity of either a SS car or a Greencard, I doubt most HR departments/employees do either.
Hence it is the government's job to provide something that allows employers to verify whether someone is eligible for work. Surely this is what E-verify was for?
Apr 6th 2010, 4:24 pm
#67
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,390
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
No, we are not missing the point. You are missing my point as discussed earlier in the thread. It is all to possible fro someone to have a social security card with a legend on it and still not have permission to work in the US.
Apr 6th 2010, 4:28 pm
#68
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
And how do you know the Greencard is the real thing? It's unlikely you can verify it's authenticity without seeking some external help.
Therein lies the pointlessness of asking for either a SS card, letter from USCIS, a Greencard, or even a passport - a typical employer has no way to validate any of them. That is my point.
Last edited by anotherlimey; Apr 6th 2010 at 4:32 pm.
Apr 6th 2010, 4:38 pm
#69
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,390
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
My nephew-in-law which was discussed by me earlier looks American, sounds American, and has a legend free social security card. He is Canadian, and does not have the right to work in the US. Discovered when ss card was electronically verified by union.
And how do you know the Greencard is the real thing? It's unlikely you can verify it's authenticity without seeking some external help.
Therein lies the pointlessness of asking for either a SS card, letter from USCIS, a Greencard, or even a passport - a typical employer has no way to validate any of them. That is my point.
Apr 6th 2010, 4:46 pm
#70
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
Looking at my Greencard it features a hologram, some type of film on the back, a fingerprint and some text for a scanner. An employer can't verify any of these without external help.
Apr 6th 2010, 4:49 pm
#71
Septic Sprout
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 7,993
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
Well I think there's one thing we can all agree on - nobody could argue that this thread was pointless...
Apr 6th 2010, 7:48 pm
#73
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
Apr 6th 2010, 7:52 pm
#74
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
It chaps some of our asses that someone would be so seriously opposed to presenting a green card that the country was willing to bestow upon them. As some have mentioned, they present it proudly. As for the lawsuit, doubt it would be a wise course of action. All the attendant press, your name in the paper. I can see the situation arising where a potential employer reviewing your resume recognizes the name of someone who sued a company because it was, perhaps in more paranoia than necessary about ICE, wanting to protect itself. The resume, one suspects, would end up in the circular file. That's where I'd put it. No one wants a shit disturber on staff who might then sue them for some minor irritation at the water cooler. If asked for the green card after being hired, it is not discrimination because you have already been hired with full knowledge that you are not a citizen. It is merely an employer being, perhaps, over protective of self interest in avoiding problems with undocumented workers. Sometimes we just have to roll with minor inconveniences and not blow things out of proportion.
There is a huge business in providing false documents, including the revered I-9 as well as SS cards and even green cards. I don't blame any employer for wanting as much as they can get in the way of proof of legal working status. It's a major hassle for businesses and hopefully E verify will help to cure the problem.
There is a huge business in providing false documents, including the revered I-9 as well as SS cards and even green cards. I don't blame any employer for wanting as much as they can get in the way of proof of legal working status. It's a major hassle for businesses and hopefully E verify will help to cure the problem.
The pendulum is swinging.
I had to provide proof when I worked in the Netherlands, that as a USC I was NOT taking a job away from a native.
Apr 6th 2010, 8:10 pm
#75
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 27,078
Re: Gaaah! Employers!!
Ummm... Yes it is.
The original frustration vented by the OP was that her husband's employer asked him to produce documentation it had no legal authority to request -- and the fact that, by doing so, he felt it might lose his job if he didn't comply.
For some of you, showing the GC obviously isn't a big deal. But the point is that no one should be put in this position in the first place -- and they wouldn't be, if the employer's behavior is legal. In this case, it wasn't. I don't think it's right to put anyone down just because they don't feel like caving into pressure, particularly when a law exists to protect them from that pressure in the first place.
~ Jenney
The original frustration vented by the OP was that her husband's employer asked him to produce documentation it had no legal authority to request -- and the fact that, by doing so, he felt it might lose his job if he didn't comply.
For some of you, showing the GC obviously isn't a big deal. But the point is that no one should be put in this position in the first place -- and they wouldn't be, if the employer's behavior is legal. In this case, it wasn't. I don't think it's right to put anyone down just because they don't feel like caving into pressure, particularly when a law exists to protect them from that pressure in the first place.
~ Jenney
Last edited by dakota44; Apr 6th 2010 at 8:29 pm.