Englishmum

This is an alarming discussion taking place on the BBC Radio 2 discussion board:

http://www.bbc.co.uk./dna/mbradio2/f...thread=1097097

NJ_Dave

Political Correctness gone crazy. Welcome to 21st Century (Great) Britain

dunroving

Sad state of affairs.

Can you imagine complaining to the police about someone flyng the US flag over here? They'd laugh at you, and rightly so. What's wrong with a bit of national pride?

Elvira

Are you sure this isn't a troll?

Two reasons: first, I cannot believe that it is illegal to fly our national flag on one's own property (plus I doubt that the police have the resources to devote so many man hours for something like this).

Secondly, I think he is overegging the custard when he says that... "I told the Police that the Pakistani Flag is often seen flying in this area of Beeston on both Cars and Buildings and that I sometimes found that uncomfortable but was warned that "those sort of comments were racist".""

Something just doesn't sound quite right about this story...

Manc

If it is true, then I think it's a jobsworth copper and I can't think it would ever stand up in court.

Angry White Pyjamas

If you read the whole thread it appears to be a wind up.

I certainly hope so because otherswise that constable was stepping beyond his powers. The law states that it is illigal to display, from a dwelling, any sign or symbol that causes or is likely to cause alarm or distress to people outside that dwelling (eg hate posters):

Amended Section 18 of the Public Order Act 1986:

(1) A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offence if-

a. he intends thereby to stir up racial or religious hatred, or

b. having regard to all the circumstances the words, behaviour or material are (or is) likely to be heard or seen by any person in whom they are (or it is) likely to stir up racial or religious hatred.


However there is a statutory defence which says:

(4) In proceedings for an offence under this section it is a defence for the accused to prove that he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to believe that the words or behaviour used, or the written material displayed, would be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other dwelling.

(5) A person who is not shown to have intended to stir up racial or religious hatred is not guilty of an offence under this section if he did not intend his words or behaviour, or the written material, to be, and was not aware that it might be, threatening, abusive or insulting.


I think any half decent lawyer could show that you would be unaware that displaying the national flag of the country in which you reside and are a citizen of would cause racial hatred.

Case dismissed m'lud.


I also dont think the coppers would have had the time or inclination to persevere with it even if the complaint was genuine. They would most likely have either politely told the complainant there was nothing they could do or would have made a cursory visit and written the job off.

elfman

I was wondering about that too. He also says "this is beyond belief and perhaps goes someway to explaining the the rise of Organisations like the BNP" - I think he's mistaking cause and effect here.

jaytee

"Are you sure this isn't a troll? "

Exactly what I was thinking.

ladylisa

If it is true then what amazes me is the audacity of someone to call the police with a complaint like that, especially if the person wasnt British. There are trillions of US flags in my subdivision I'm sure I would be politely escorted to the airport if I complained about them.

Sarah

I think its a bit sad that its got to the point where you can't fly the flag of your own country IN your own country without being asked to take it down for fear of offending people.
Basically I think its a shame that the Union flag has now become a symbol of the extreme right wing and is now recognised as an enblem of neo nazis.
I doubt anyone visiting Cardiff would feel that the sight of the Welsh flag being flown from the castle was a racist symbol.
When I lived in England, I worked for a local government and sometimes had to deal with BNP members calling themselves 'politicians' and they had the Union Jack on everything, on their letterheads, rosettes, stickers etc -

I don't think we should be mindlessly patriotic like Americans can be (by that I mean the way questioning the government being considered treason by some.) but I don't think its right that we cannot celebrate our good points without being accused of inciting racial hatred. The Scots can fly the St. Andrews flag, the Welsh the St. Davids but if you fly the St. Georges flag or the Union Jack and you're racist scum? Something ain't right. Its not like I want to wear the Union Jack on my top everyday or fly the flag from my front door. I just feel that the nazis and the BNP have no right to claim the Union Jack as theirs.

scrubbedexpat099

I am pretty sure it was an actual incident, I have heard similar stories elsewhere so there would be no need to make this up.

Whenever there are particularly American issues that annoy me I find that a quick fix is to listen to the BBC, you can pretty much guarantee a story like this every few days on Radio 5 Live Drive.

BTW the Mexicans take their flag very seriously, T Shirts, Underwear etc, you could end up in jail. I am not sure exactly where I stand, but I have no objection to the Mexican view.

In the US, people seem to bend over to accomodate those who are indigenous, UK, actually England, goes the other way. Weird.

Angry White Pyjamas

Im sure its not. There is quite simply no law being broken. Maybe, just maybe, it could be suggested that under current events and in certain areas it could cause racial tension, however, flying the national flags of any of the countries in the union is perfectly legal. Even if there was some zealous young copper trying to make a name for himself his supervision would tell him to get a grip and even if they didnt they CPS would throw it out.

If the flag had writing on it then it would no longer be the Cross of St George as recogised as a national flag and then it could be construed as causing alarm or distress. Especially if that writing was along the lines of "F off <xxxxxx>".

Actually, my personal opinion on this is that this is some oink trying to stir up some tension by fabricating the story.

Jan Alaska

I mentioned something similar in a different thread, this having acutally happened to a good friend of mine who lives in Wolverhampton and who's hubby just happens to be a policeman. She said it wasnt a big flag its the same one they fly to support England when they are playing in international match, her neighbours complained and she was told to take it down. Once again I will say its a sad day when you cant fly your own nations flag in your own country.

Also worth noting ... Wolverhampton city council had a rememberence service for the victims of the July bombings and decided not to play "Land of hope and glory" as it was too British ...... they played Sailing by Rod Stewart instead.

scrubbedexpat099

A quick search:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2885807.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1846361.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1643358.stm

I am sure I can find more.

Angry White Pyjamas

And none of those are cases of people breaking the law by flying a flag simply because there is no law being broken. Yes people complain - people complain about any damn thing - but in all those cases it was private residences (uni) or employers asking employees to take down flags or harrasment by other private citizens...which is in itself illegal. None of the flag flyers were told they would be arrested for it.

This is not so much an issue of legality more one of "politcal correctness" being wielded by small minded idiots with a bit of power.