fios

Old Aug 10th 2013, 8:40 pm
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Default fios

Is the internet worth it, I am looking at 50mbps, will I get close to those speeds or is it the same as the rest and I get 2/3rds of the speed I pay for?

Currently with brighthouse and get turbo 30mbps but really only getting around 18 mbps which isn't to bad but I get buffering at night with the roku and 3 computers going.

Your opinions please
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Old Aug 10th 2013, 8:56 pm
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Default Re: fios

I hear that much of the speed limitation is farther upstream, so no matter how fast your local connection, your actual download speed may only be a fraction of that.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 4:16 am
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Default Re: fios

Yes, absolutely you should get FIOS if able. It is - by a long way - the best consumer Internet connection widely available in the US. Verizon uses fibre to the premises so your quoted connection speed will be exactly that. Secondly, unlike the scumbags at Comcast, your Internet connection has no hard or soft download limits nor any DPI to shape specific traffic (search for Comcast & Reset packet to find out how Comcast attempts to mess with your traffic.

FIOS is also nationally contended, rather than locally (ala Comcast) so if you live in an apartment block Comcast's bandwidth is contended between your block, whereas FIOS is nationally contended.

So, is that clear then? FIOS is by far and away the best product.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 4:27 am
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Default Re: fios

Originally Posted by hungryhorace View Post
..... So, is that clear then? FIOS is by far and away the best product.
Agreed, but from what I hear it doesn't mean that everything downloads at the fastest rate, there are other upstream bandwidth restrictions that may reduce the actual download rate observed by the conserved.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 5:19 am
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Default Re: fios

You're referring to TCP ACK's not being sent due to a saturated upstream? If so, that's not remotely an issue here given a) FIOS is a symmetrical product & b) even if it was asymmetrical, the upload speed would only need to be around a meg (if that) to ensure the upload link wasn't saturated with ACKs.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 5:53 am
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Default Re: fios

Originally Posted by hungryhorace View Post
You're referring to TCP ACK's not being sent due to a saturated upstream? If so, that's not remotely an issue here given a) FIOS is a symmetrical product & b) even if it was asymmetrical, the upload speed would only need to be around a meg (if that) to ensure the upload link wasn't saturated with ACKs.
No, I don't think that's what I'm referring to, but that's mostly because I have not the slightest idea what you mean; it would make as much sense as if you'd replied in Greek.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 7:20 am
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Default Re: fios

Originally Posted by tipex View Post
Is the internet worth it, I am looking at 50mbps, will I get close to those speeds or is it the same as the rest and I get 2/3rds of the speed I pay for?

Currently with brighthouse and get turbo 30mbps but really only getting around 18 mbps which isn't to bad but I get buffering at night with the roku and 3 computers going.

Your opinions please
What type of router are you using? If it is an 802.11g router, you won't get wireless speeds above 18 mbps (probably due to the acknowledgements required) even though it is rated at a maximum of 54 mbps. To get higher wireless speeds, you'll need an 802.11n router and devices that also support the n protocol (most devices within the last 5 years support the n protocol on the 2.4 GHz band and some on both the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands). You can also purchase the new AC type routers that are about 3x faster than the N type router (1750 mbps vs 600 mbps) but currently few devices support the AC protocol so that is probably a waste of money.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...ined-its-cool/

To see the real speed of your line, hardwire directly to your modem and use the following link. You can also probably hardwire directly to the router instead of the modem since that should support 100 mbps but I'd wire it directly to the modem to make sure. Your best results will probably occur late at night (1 am or later). For me, I get about 29 mbps download and 6 mbps upload late at night but that is reduced to 27 mbps download and 5.5 mbps during the daytime. That reduction could be caused by server overloads, more internet traffic, slower cable speed, or more wireless collusions (even though I'm using the 5 GHz band which should eliminate most collusions) during the day.

http://www.speedtest.net/

Also it appears that DOCSIS 2.0 modems can't get much above 25 mbps and you will probably need a DOCSIS 3.0 modem to get to 30 mbps.

Currently I consistently get 27-29 mbps download and 5.5-6 mbps upload with Comcast's internet service (advertised at 25 mbps download and 4 mbps upload) using a DOCSIS 3.0 modem and a dual band n type router. I primarily use the 5 GHz band (on my two computers, TV, and Blu-Ray player but not my wireless printer and mobile devices which don't support the 5 GHz band) since I live in a condo complex and if I use the 2.4 GHz band, I get extremely variable wireless speeds (3 mbps-25mbps) due to collusions with other routers. The 5 GHz band can't transmit as far so there is very few collusions with other routers. If you live in a house, I wouldn't recommend using the 5 GHz band (unless the devices are close to the router) since it has a difficult time going through more than one wall. Even going through one wall with the router about 10 feet on the other side of the wall, I usually only see 4 bars on the 5 GHz band but always 5 bars on the 2.4 GHz band.

Since Brighthouse is advertising 30 mbps, I suspect the line speed is at least 30 mbps and more likely a little higher than that.

Last edited by Michael; Aug 11th 2013 at 9:19 am.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 5:11 pm
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Default Re: fios

Here's a speedtest with FIOS at midday. I'm on their 75/35 service.


I get that result consistently, every day, no matter what the time. FIOS is 100x better than Comcast imo.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 6:22 pm
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Default Re: fios

Originally Posted by hungryhorace View Post
Here's a speedtest with FIOS at midday. I'm on their 75/35 service.
http://i39.tinypic.com/fo2aep.png

I get that result consistently, every day, no matter what the time. FIOS is 100x better than Comcast imo.
Comcast also has 50/10 and 105/20 plans. For me, the basic 25/4 plan is all I need, is reliable, and is month to month.

I agree that FIOS is slightly superior to the others but not that significant as long as the area cable system is 720 MHz or above. I believe FIOS is only a 540 MHz system but it doesn't have to contend with legacy analog channels (currently about 1/5th of the bandwidth needed in my area for the still supported 20 analog channels).

Last edited by Michael; Aug 11th 2013 at 6:30 pm.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 6:26 pm
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Default Re: fios

Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Comcast also has 50/10 and 105/20 plans. For me, the basic 25/4 plan is all I need, is reliable, and is month to month.

I agree that FIOS is slightly superior to the others but not that significant.
My point is it's not so much about the speeds (though they're very impressive on FIOS) but rather the underlying technology used to provide the service. Comcast still uses coaxial along with docsis3.0. The connection is asymmetrical, which means the potential for saturation of the upload stream is high. This in turn means that your download speeds are reduced (often quite drastically).

So for example, if you live in a neighborhood where people on Comcast like to torrent, you'll find that your local UBR is going to experience significant upload saturations which then affects ALL downloads attached to that UBR.

Bottom line: Comcast's using an outdated, inefficient product offering. Just like Virgin Media in the UK.

FIOS, otoh, suffers from none of these issues by virtue of not relying on local UBRs and being a symmetric connection.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 6:34 pm
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Default Re: fios

It's shit, but it's massively less shit than the alternatives, unless you have Google.

On the shit factor, it compares just as much as Comcast/TW when things go wrong and we've found it to go wrong as much as the alternatives.

The up/down is pretty consistent though.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 6:41 pm
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Default Re: fios

Originally Posted by hungryhorace View Post
My point is it's not so much about the speeds (though they're very impressive on FIOS) but rather the underlying technology used to provide the service. Comcast still uses coaxial along with docsis3.0. The connection is asymmetrical, which means the potential for saturation of the upload stream is high. This in turn means that your download speeds are reduced (often quite drastically).

So for example, if you live in a neighborhood where people on Comcast like to torrent, you'll find that your local UBR is going to experience significant upload saturations which then affects ALL downloads attached to that UBR.

Bottom line: Comcast's using an outdated, inefficient product offering. Just like Virgin Media in the UK.

FIOS, otoh, suffers from none of these issues by virtue of not relying on local UBRs and being a symmetric connection.
I agree if you like to torrent, then FIOS is superior. If you don't torrent, I don't think there is a major significant difference between the two.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 6:44 pm
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Default Re: fios

Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I agree if you like to torrent, then FIOS is superior. If you don't torrent, I don't think there is a major significant difference between the two.
Sorry, my point is being lost. It's not to do if whether YOU like torrenting, it's to do with the impact your NEIGHBORS can have on your Comcast connection by virtue of their love of uploading activities.

FIOS, as a nationally contended product, suffers from none of the UBR saturation issues that plaque cable providers.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 8:20 pm
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Default Re: fios

Originally Posted by hungryhorace View Post
Sorry, my point is being lost. It's not to do if whether YOU like torrenting, it's to do with the impact your NEIGHBORS can have on your Comcast connection by virtue of their love of uploading activities.

FIOS, as a nationally contended product, suffers from none of the UBR saturation issues that plaque cable providers.
I don't understand why I don't seem to see much degradation but my download speed never seems to drop below 27 mbps whenever I have checked. I tried to think of reasons but I can't seem to come up with a valid reason for not seeing the degradation. You would think I should occasionally see a major degradation when someone sharing my stream is watching a HD video, playing online action games, or downloading. DOCIS 3.0 could possibly help solve the problem in the future by using multiple channels to get the bit rate very high and then throttling the connection to keep the throughput down but with some many DOCSIS 2.0 modems still in use, it wouldn't currently help much.

Also FIOS is not totally free from the problem either since it has to backhaul all the packets to and from the internet.

Edit: With most cable system between 720 MHz and 1 .2 GHz, there should be plenty of spare bandwidth available to create a very high speed stream once they get rid of all the analog channels on the 720 MHz system. Each analog channel (6 MHz each) would create a maximum of about 38 mbps download or about 27 mbps upload throughput. I suspect cable companies are currently putting DOCSIS 2.0 modems on it's own download channel (only one allowed) and putting DOCSIS 3.0 modems on multiple download channels and then throttling them if they have restricted speeds. I suspect the cable companies currently may be using the same upload channel for both versions and throttling upload speeds. If that is the case, then that might explain why I don't see much degradation since most customers have the 25/4 plan and the download stream would have to have at least 3 channels (114 mbps) to be able to support the 100/20 plan. Also I suspect that less than 20% of the customers currently have DOCSIS 3.0 modems. If they are also using more than three download channels for DOCSIS 3.0 modems, then my chances of seeing degradation even becomes less.

Last edited by Michael; Aug 11th 2013 at 10:11 pm.
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Old Aug 11th 2013, 11:09 pm
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Default Re: fios

Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I don't understand why I don't seem to see much degradation but my download speed never seems to drop below 27 mbps whenever I have checked.
Easy. Your local UBR doesn't suffer from high contention ratios. Comcast also attempt to perform DPI on your traffic to manage it, thankfully the FCC stopped this abhorrent behaviour, but it shows you the kind of ISP/company they are.
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