Jane 'n' Dave

Hiya guys, this is my first post here.

I am in a long term relationship with a US citizen and I am just starting a court battle with my Ex Husband as he wont allow me to take the kids over to the states.
Me and my partner are planning to marry and live in the states but right now things are not going easy for us.
Is there anyone else out there that has had to fight an ex in court for custody of the children and having them be allowed to go to the states without the other parents permission?
If so, i would really like to hear from you and what experiences you went through and what you needed to prove to the courts, how long the fight was and to help me prepare for what is going to happen to me and my children while this fight goes on.

Hope to hear from someone soon

Jane

JAJ

These are really questions best answered by your lawyer.

Jerseygirl

Sounds as though it will get very nasty and very messy. BTW how can you even consider taking your children away from their father to live in another continent?

snowbunny

Depends on the circumstances .... if he hasn't had much to do with the kids up til this point, it's one thing, but if they would even recognise him on the street then I think they should be given a chance to have a relationship with him (and therefore remain in the UK).

I would like to emigrate someday, but will not until my youngest is 18.

Can your fiance move to the UK?

Jerseygirl

Yep I realise that...just want to clear it up as she did ask our advice.

I don't have a fiance. I've been happily married for 27 yrs....I'm one of the lucky ones.

NC Penguin

If your ex-husband is the biological father of both your children, you will certainly have a fight on your hands. I'm not sure you can even legally take your kids out of the country (even for a holiday) without your ex's permission.

I'm not a lawyer and if I were you'd, I'd get a family lawyer involved, preferably one with experience with families being divided overseas.


NC Penguin

NC Penguin

The Bunny beat you to it on Post #4!


NC Penguin

Irn-bru

ditto, what does your lawyer say as I would have thought there would be no way you can come here until at least custody has been set. And it does sound that as your ex is prepared to fight for custody that he cares and wants to see your children(unless he is just evil). which to me is a good thing?

JAJ

That's always a possibility.

JAJ

AIUI a holiday for less than a month isn't usually a problem, according to the Children Act.

Courts can (and do) give permission for children to leave the United Kingdom even if parent objects, but every case is different and it depends on circumstances. Including the age of children.

yorkshire_lass

Make absolutely sure that the lawyer you see has experience of these situations. From what I understand you will have to prove that the move is in the best interests of the children.

The court will look at all aspects such as how well you have planned the move, what provision you have for financial support, schools, housing etc. and even if all of that looks in order they will still want to see a reason why it would be good for the children to start a new life in a new culture away from their father and the rest of the family.

Could your intended move to the UK instead?

here you might find some info:

http://www.spig.clara.net/issues/removal.htm

Scouse Express

Jane,

Here is you answer, from the FAQ section of a British Legal Advice Website

Jim.

Q: Can my spouse take our children out of the country?

From Separation & Divorce Kit

A: When both parents have 'parental responsibility', neither parent can take a child out of England and Wales or Scotland without the permission of the other parent or the leave of the court. Without such permission or leave, that parent will be committing an act of child abduction. If there's a serious risk of kidnap, the port alert scheme can be initiated by the police to watch likely emigration points. Contact the police or a solicitor for further advice.

The jurisdictions of England and Wales and Scotland are signatories to the International Hague Convention on child abduction. This means that the courts undertake to enforce the orders of the signatory countries concerning children and to return abducted children to the country from which they were kidnapped

Englishmum

My best friend (an Aussie) has gone through a huge battle in the past year with her ex over their children (aged 7 and 3).

When they got divorced he returned to live with his mother on the Gold Coast in Australia, ostensibly to work in the family business (he was the house-husband in the US).

The children went to visit him in Australia and when her mother (their granny) went to check in with them at Sydney airport they were all detained by the Australian Federal Police and the immigration service. The father had gone to the Magistrates' Court in Brisbane that very morning - a Sunday - and got an order preventing them returning to the US. The eldest child was Aussie born but the youngest was born in the States.

My friend had to fly to Oz to go for compulsory mediation and if nothing could be agreed, they would have to appear in Court. She engaged a solicitor specialising in international child abduction (found via: http://www.reunite.org).

Under the Hague Convention her solicitor argued that as the children were 'settled' in the US, that was their main home and they would have to return there. (From what I've read, it seems that once a child has been 'settled' in the same home for 6 months or more with permission of both parents, then that is the place/country deemed to be their main residence.)

The ex didn't have a leg to stand on so rather than face expensive legal and court fees he agreed that they could return to the US.

Right now they are in Oz with their father and due to fly back to the US next week.....it seems highly unlikely that he will try to detain the children this time.

snowbunny

All very true. The UK is a signatory to the Hague Convention.

The six-month rule is definitely a US convention; it may well hold for the purposes of Hague Convention law as well.

This is why it is such a tricky legal matter and why, in the long run, it is far, far easier to keep the children in their home country if there are any disputes over where they should live.

I speak from experience: I have two children of my own and they keep me here, but my primary responsibility is to them and to allow them to have a relationship with their father. When they are both 18, then I can do as I please.

Again, if the father has previously refused to be involved with the kids; or is in prison; or has been abusive to the kids.... that's a different kettle of fish entirely, and there are some parents who would be spiteful and try to stop the kids moving in order to hurt the ex, even if they themselves didn't really care where the kids live. But that's the exception and not the rule.

The court is the place to argue the above (if it applies) but if it doesn't, the odds are the children will have to remain in the UK. Please do consult a lawyer. I share my experience only to say that this is not an unusual situation.

Elvira

Why?

Seems to me that unless the father is abusive or has no involvement with his children, the logical thing to do would be to remain in the UK and have your fiance move to join you there.