English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
Jun 8th 2005, 3:54 pm
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English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
Some of you may or may not know that over a month ago, The Sunday Times of London was the first to break the story about the "Downing Street Memo" -- a controversial news story over in the UK which the US media seem to have been reluctant to run at all. It appears that there is some confusion over the use of a phrase in the memo, because it may mean different things depending on whether you use American English or British English. Here's the memo section in question (my emphasis added):
"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."
When I -- an American -- read this, I interpret "fixed around" to mean something was rigged, or more specifically, that the intelligence and facts were deliberately and deceptively altered to support Bush's position.
However, I've read in a couple of news articles that "fixed around" in British English means "added on" or "bolted on". I'm not really sure what they mean by that or even if that happens to be true. (Mark isn't here for me to ask!)
So... How do YOU interpret this phrase? Do Britons read that the same way I'M reading it, or differently?
~ Jenney
"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."
When I -- an American -- read this, I interpret "fixed around" to mean something was rigged, or more specifically, that the intelligence and facts were deliberately and deceptively altered to support Bush's position.
However, I've read in a couple of news articles that "fixed around" in British English means "added on" or "bolted on". I'm not really sure what they mean by that or even if that happens to be true. (Mark isn't here for me to ask!)
So... How do YOU interpret this phrase? Do Britons read that the same way I'M reading it, or differently?
~ Jenney
Jun 8th 2005, 4:05 pm
#2
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark
Some of you may or may not know that over a month ago, The Sunday Times of London was the first to break the story about the "Downing Street Memo" -- a controversial news story over in the UK which the US media seem to have been reluctant to run at all. It appears that there is some confusion over the use of a phrase in the memo, because it may mean different things depending on whether you use American English or British English. Here's the memo section in question (my emphasis added):
"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."
When I -- an American -- read this, I interpret "fixed around" to mean something was rigged, or more specifically, that the intelligence and facts were deliberately and deceptively altered to support Bush's position.
However, I've read in a couple of news articles that "fixed around" in British English means "added on" or "bolted on". I'm not really sure what they mean by that or even if that happens to be true. (Mark isn't here for me to ask!)
So... How do YOU interpret this phrase? Do Britons read that the same way I'M reading it, or differently?
~ Jenney
"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."
When I -- an American -- read this, I interpret "fixed around" to mean something was rigged, or more specifically, that the intelligence and facts were deliberately and deceptively altered to support Bush's position.
However, I've read in a couple of news articles that "fixed around" in British English means "added on" or "bolted on". I'm not really sure what they mean by that or even if that happens to be true. (Mark isn't here for me to ask!)
So... How do YOU interpret this phrase? Do Britons read that the same way I'M reading it, or differently?
~ Jenney
-tom
Jun 8th 2005, 4:34 pm
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark
So... How do YOU interpret this phrase?
I interpret it to mean that the intelligence and facts were secondary to the policy - that the decision had been made, the policy established, and that justification was being retrospectively sought for it. They wanted a war and were casting around for a way of selling it to the public. Creepy Paul Wolfowitz admitted as such when he said in an interview that they settled on WMD as the issue to justify the war for "bureacratic reasons".
Read The Downing Street Memo in full here:
http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/memo.html
Jun 8th 2005, 4:41 pm
#4
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
[QUOTE=elfman]"Rigged" would be correct.
Agree that it means rigged. However, it is frightfully bad English - probably written by someone who wanted to convey 'rigged' but didn't have the guts to come out and say so.
Elvira
Agree that it means rigged. However, it is frightfully bad English - probably written by someone who wanted to convey 'rigged' but didn't have the guts to come out and say so.
Elvira
Jun 8th 2005, 4:49 pm
#5
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
I read it as "rigged" or "doctored to fit". I've tried to read it the other way to test it but that way it doesn't seem to make much sense to me.
Jun 8th 2005, 5:00 pm
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
Originally Posted by Dimsie
I read it as "rigged" or "doctored to fit". I've tried to read it the other way to test it but that way it doesn't seem to make much sense to me.
One article has the following quote:
Robin Niblett of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank, says it would be easy for Americans to misunderstand the reference to intelligence being "fixed around" Iraq policy. " 'Fixed around' in British English means 'bolted on' rather than altered to fit the policy," he says.
When you replace "fixed around" with "bolted on" -- "But the intelligence and facts were being bolted on to the policy" -- it makes NO sense. I have no clue what that guy is talking about.
~ Jenney
Jun 8th 2005, 5:06 pm
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark
'Fixed around' in British English means 'bolted on' rather than altered to fit the policy,"
As we say in British English.
Jun 8th 2005, 5:18 pm
#8
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
Defo a botch job on the think tank guy...it means rigged which ever way you look at it...
Jun 8th 2005, 5:20 pm
#9
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
If they really meant "bolted on" they should have written "affixed to" .... which is proper in either American or British English but Americans tend to not understand "affixed" as easily as they would "bolted."
Most "spin" is poorly written because it's.... spin. Spunk, really.
Most "spin" is poorly written because it's.... spin. Spunk, really.
Jun 8th 2005, 5:21 pm
#10
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
Originally Posted by elfman
Bollocks
As we say in British English.
As we say in British English.
Hear hear - Bollox indeed
Jun 8th 2005, 6:18 pm
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
I read that the same way as you, and I think everyone else will say the same. 'Fixed around' would imply they altered/removed the facts.
-tom
-tom
Looking at it that way, taking the facts that do fit is bolting them on, deliberately twisting them would mean it was "doctored to fit" (to borrow a phrase from another poster). The phrase is ambiguous as I would think you could argue that the phrase "fixed around" could be used for both scenarios. Either way they both involve a level of deception if the first means leaving out some facts.
Jun 8th 2005, 8:25 pm
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Re: English usage and the "Downing Street Memo"
Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark
Some of you may or may not know that over a month ago, The Sunday Times of London was the first to break the story about the "Downing Street Memo" -- a controversial news story over in the UK which the US media seem to have been reluctant to run at all. It appears that there is some confusion over the use of a phrase in the memo, because it may mean different things depending on whether you use American English or British English. Here's the memo section in question (my emphasis added):
"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."
When I -- an American -- read this, I interpret "fixed around" to mean something was rigged, or more specifically, that the intelligence and facts were deliberately and deceptively altered to support Bush's position.
However, I've read in a couple of news articles that "fixed around" in British English means "added on" or "bolted on". I'm not really sure what they mean by that or even if that happens to be true. (Mark isn't here for me to ask!)
So... How do YOU interpret this phrase? Do Britons read that the same way I'M reading it, or differently?
~ Jenney
"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."
When I -- an American -- read this, I interpret "fixed around" to mean something was rigged, or more specifically, that the intelligence and facts were deliberately and deceptively altered to support Bush's position.
However, I've read in a couple of news articles that "fixed around" in British English means "added on" or "bolted on". I'm not really sure what they mean by that or even if that happens to be true. (Mark isn't here for me to ask!)
So... How do YOU interpret this phrase? Do Britons read that the same way I'M reading it, or differently?
~ Jenney
