warwick3

Is there a reason why you so angrily snap back at every post?
I mentioned IB originally simply because no one else had, yet you replied like it was a criticsm of you because you hadn't mentioned it. It wasn't.

I mentioned 'I' have only dipped my toe in the expat world (as I am fairly new to it), yet you snap back as if I commented that you were such. I did not.

Finally,
You have no right to assume on L1 visas the OPs children will definitely return to the UK for college. There are many visa and scholarship options open to them in the US and, once they have enjoyed an expat assignment, they may wish to spread their wings into Europe or elsewhere. Indeed, my last post suggested things change (often!).

I thought this forum for the gracious sharing of information, nothing more. Perhaps all would do well to remember that, as kindness really does go a long way in this turbulent world.

kodokan

I have a couple of family members who have questionned our decision to move overseas, and the effect it'll have on the schooling and emotional well-being of our 'poor kids' (not directly, but via passed-on conversations with other family members). Our most outspoken 'but won't somebody think of the children!' faux-concern critic has two teens who've lived in the same house all their lives and proceeded through an entirely predictable schooling path - one has in recent months been using vodka parties, of the type that require deep bathroom and carpet cleaning afterwards, to get through the stress of GCSEs; the other has taken to self-harming due to body image issues. It's very sad to see, but shows that staying put isn't a guarantee of a happy childhood.

I don't know what sort of kids I'd have if we'd stayed in the UK, in the small, parochial market town we were in. Maybe mine too would have succumbed to what appears to be - based on friends' kids - the pressure cooker of UK teen-dom in a middle-class English childhood these days. Maybe not.

All I know is that (cautious voice) so far it seems to be working out just fine for them, academically and socially. They're resolutely individuals who seem much emotionally resilient than their peers; minor life changes and setbacks bounce off them as they already know they can weather far worse, and that everything passes given time, and nothing is certain except change.

I'm trying hard to be objective about our choices, and look for negatives, to help the OP with their decision. Let's see... it DOES set them apart from other teens. My 16 year old finds most teenage angst about relationships/ grades/ parents amusingly irrelevant and childish, in the same way that adults do; he has a 'none of this is important in the real world' view that presumably comes from experiencing much more of the real world. He and I were Pokemonning over the park yesterday with a neighborhood kid he knows from the school bus, and it came up in conversation he was 16: 'You're 16?' exclaimed the other kid. 'Younger than me? I'm 17, and I thought you were older than me'. Son isn't physically old-looking at all, but he has an adult, unflappable manner and tends to talk about big picture 'ideas' rather than about he-said-she-said 'people'.

So that's the biggest consequence I've seen so far, in my very small sample set - that major life moves, changing educational systems, etc, makes kids 'old before their time' and out-of-step with most other teens. I can see why petitefrancaise says it's a benefit for her kids to be in a school with others in the same situation; we don't have that, being in a less cosmopolitan area. I'd second her idea to actively seek that out, if possible.

I sometimes feel like my son is somewhat killing time with high school until he reaches adulthood, goes to college and his real life will start, but I don't truly know how much of that is attributable to his circumstances or whether he would have just been one of those 'old souls' anyway, the type who were never going to look back on their teen years as 'awesome, highlight of my life!'. Don't get me wrong, he's perfectly happy and popular, has plenty of casual friends and acquaintances, but he hasn't yet found 'his people' in life. We'll see... he's finished all his gen ed graduation requirement classes now so next year has just APs and Honors for core academics, with kids all his age or older - he might find some more like-minded friends then.

petitefrancaise

I wasn't snapping and unlike you, I was attempting to point out that I am not at all new to the "ex-pat world".

Your post contained generalisations and opinions from people who obviously don't know much about education in the USA. The university admissions people - especially the "international admissions" office will have much more detailed and accurate knowledge of the US AP exams. Expecially in the UK, less so in mainland Europe. Both Kodokan and I came in to correct your information - which is one of the great benefits of an open forum. Please feel free to correct me if I post erroneous information, I do my best not to do that. I also try very hard to point out what is fact and what is my opinion.

As for going elsewhere in the EU for studying, I have already said in this thread that my own son is going back to Europe for his university education. Sweden or Holland, both of whom are very happy to accept IB but also would have been ok with good AP results.

You're really hung up on the IB, it's good, my kids like it and like that it sets them apart and into a rather elite group at school - only the bright kids take IB. But it's not the be all and end all. Also, for the OP, he will have to pay UPFRONT for university in the US for his kids. Not many people will have at least $20k a year hanging around - (probably a lot more though, out of state tuition for the first year until residency is established, + dorm + spending money + books etc )Especially when there is the option of NOT having to spend it.

warwick3

I am very sorry you can't reflect on the points I made.

There is no point continuing this discussion - clearly the OPs children just need to go to the British School you suggested and the rest of us are just stupid to have an opinion. Have a great day.

kodokan

It's funny... the more schools my kids go to, the more I conclude that the actual school itself has very little to do with their resulting education, and the foundation it will give them to succeed in life.

Note too that incomers to a new area with teens have a few HUGE advantages over 'pick the best K-12 school and stick with it'. For starters, the last couple of times we've moved - Phoenix, AZ and Columbus, OH - I've been starting from a choice that includes dozens of school districts and hundreds of schools to narrow down from, rather than being restricted to what's already a reasonable distance from my house/ work. And I'm already working with known raw material, with my (last year) 11 and 15 year olds - I, and they, know what sort of school suits them, size, academic and extracurricular specialties, urban, suburban, bus or walk, etc etc. My son and I knew to look for a large school with as much streaming as possible in as urban a setting as we could find, offering strong programs in science but still doing the AP European History he'd set his heart on, that taught French but also offered German and other languages he's interested in. It's very hard to pick a high school based on a 5 year old.

I completely understand your viewpoint. Stability is, for many kids, a good thing. But the OP has already mentioned that his job is changing in a way that will at the very least require a move within the UK, so we're trying to give him things to think through rather than tell him he can't move his kids' schools without ruining their lives.

petitefrancaise

Is that a flounce?

It wasn't in fact me that brought up the British school in Houston, someone else did and since I've been involved in the thread right from the beginning, then I thought it was an excellent idea for the OP in the position he is in currently. The only criticism I have heard about the British school in Houston is the cost. Which sounds like it isn't going to be an issue for the OP.

Jerseygirl

The bickering is not helpful to the OP. Please take it to PM. Thanks.

Pulaski

You are extraordinarily defensive of your decisions made about your children's education, even though it is clear from your other posts that your moves to France and then Texas were based entirely on your husband's job/career. Secondary to those decisions you have managed to juggle your children's schooling such that things seem to have worked out OK. Objectively that is the case, and starting from that more honest position you could craft some very helpful advice for people considering moving children/teenagers to the US. But .....

.... To take your school-related posts in isolation, anyone would think that you decided to move your young children to France for seven years was primarily for the educational experience, and that then moving them as teenagers to English language schools in the US was also done solely to further enhance their education.

Ditto, except replace France with Switzerland, and Texas with Arizona and NJ respectively, for Kodokan and MitFH.

kodokan

In the interests of putting the record straight, and hopefully further useful discussion, for us it's been a mishmash of reasons. Hubby has always ticked the 'open to an international assignement' box at his corporate appraisals and we were very keen on the idea. When it was offered, he didn't need to take it for his career-or-bust; he was already working for the European HO remotely. But we thought it would be an exciting opportunity for the kids to gain a second language at the easy impressionable young age (they were 8 and 4), and that we'd all have a fun family adventure. It saved hubby some commuting too, with flying over for meetings.

So let's call that one 80: 20 for moving for family:job reasons.

The move to the US, however, was solely for my son's educational benefit. By 11, he was conversationally fluent in spoken and written French and comfortably passing his classes, but it was becoming apparent he was extremely bright, and we and his teachers were becoming concerned that doing his secondary education in a non-native language could hold him back, especially when the streaming for the uni track would be based solely on grades in French, German and Maths, ie, largely based on 'not his language' and 'another language being taught through one he knew imperfectly'. (He tests in the in 98th-100 percentiles across various subjects on things like CoGAT, ACT and PSAT; I'm not mentioning this as the usual dull boast about forumite child geniuses, but because it's been a driving factor in the educational decisions we've taken for him).

He was also... let's say 'underperforming' socially too; with no interest in sport, and, lacking the conversational dexterity for the deep and meaningful chats he truly enjoyed, he was starting to spend more and more time with socially unchallenging kids such as those younger than himself or newly arrived immigrants. This wasn't going to be good for his long term development.

Hubby explained this to his boss, and - as we were localized and international school fees weren't an option - frankly said we'd either have to be moved to an English-speaking country, or he'd have to leave the company and move us back to the UK. So not the best career enhancing conversation for him at all! Luckily his boss was a decent sort, and came up with a US-Euro integration project hubby could do, and posted us to AZ.

Reason for move: 100% oldest child's education (the younger one would've been fine continuing in French; hubby had a great job and an excellent relationship with his Swiss boss; I adored Switzerland and still miss it dreadfully).

This last move from AZ to OH was of nobody's choosing, resulting from job loss and relocation to a new company; this could happen to anyone, regardless of which country they're in. So we'll consider that one neutral on all factors. (Except that once again, we've picked a location here that's super convenient for hubby's commute (less than 10 mins) and has great schools for the kids, but is MINDLESSLY dull suburbs with little to do from my point of view. One day, my turn will come...)

So our story is far from that of selfish expat parents dragging their kids around the globe with scant regard for their schooling, bodging it as we went along. Pretty much any early development expert would agree that giving well-adjusted, sociable children the opportunity of early bilingualism and experiencing another culture is an educational Golden Ticket in terms of brain development and potential later life opportunities. And then we must get some parenting points for recognizing that our son needed something different once he approached his teens, and acting accordingly.

It's HARD balancing the needs of all members of the family, all the time. Even without any moves at all, parents of multiple kids already have to tussle early on with things like 'this small village school is the perfect nurturing environment for shy, artsy Little Johnny... but oh dear, outgoing, physically active Jemima would be much better off at the 500-kid town school, with the challenges of academic competition and being on strong sports teams'. Or later on, when you're boundaried in for the STEM academy secondary that's perfect for your older child, but your younger one really needs to go to the one specializing in modern languages, that would require a move to the next town...

Most people, even if they wanted to, don't have the luxury of staying put in one place for two decades and basing their work/ housing/ schooling decisions around nothing more than the needs of a single child. Multiple children, redundancy, juggling more than one career if both parents work... toss in the possibility of an overseas move, with (sometimes) the implied threat of job loss, or at least career sidelining if the opportunity is rejected - this is why people come here, to talk it all over with others in the same situation, now or in the past.

I also don't agree that picking one perfect school for K-12 is the be all and end all, even with one child. It wasn't obvious when my son was starting school just how academically strong he'd be as a teen, and also how carefully we would need to select a high school that not only gave him what he needed academically, but also socially. There is a nationally-ranked 10/10 high school not far from here, on an isolated rural campus, pupiled entirely from spawning elite homes where the AVERAGE income is $185k+. We ruled it out, because although he needs strong intellectual stimulation, he also needs to dial back on his intellectual arrogance and become a well-rounded person who can comfortably mix with people of different abilities, backgrounds and races, with whom he can have a social life in a neighborhood that's not dependent on the Mum Taxi.

The do-over element of picking schools along the way has really been surprisingly helpful in meeting his changing needs, and it's something not often mentioned as a real benefit of serial relocating. We couldn't possibly have predicted the right high school environment for him at age 5. My younger one, much more middling academically and a social all-rounder, has so far fitted very well into any decent neighborhood school we've lived by, but if she showed an ability or strong interest in a certain subject or field in the future, I'd definitely consider moving to create the right environment for her, at that age, rather than leave her in the 'stability' of a sub-optimum choice.

petitefrancaise

How old is little Miss P?

My kids are 19, 17 and 13. Eldest has completed her first year of university here in Austin doing a very demanding double honors course. She is happy and excited about her future.
Middlest (!!!) will be finishing school next year and expected to do very well in his IB. He is going to university in Europe, he is currently competing in the USNationals for rowing. He is also happy and looking forward to his next life stage.
Youngest, is about to go into high school. She's had a tough year thanks to some awful (french) girls but is looking forward to high school and is enjoying her summer holidays.
I could go on about bi-lingualism etc but in fact, I don't need to. I don't feel the need to justify choices we made or share what the reasons were. For us, it has worked out well.

I find that people will either find reasons NOT to do something or reasons TO do something. It's no skin off my nose if little Miss P stays in Hicksville, NC for the rest of her life. I would only wish her well.

Jerseygirl

Charlotte is hardly Hicksville.

petitefrancaise

No?

thanks for the helpful post.

vikingsail

I think this debate is very interesting. I can see how moving children and exposing them to new ideas culture etc can potentially be enriching but I think ultimately it is a justification. Many studies on military children have shown that two distinct groups of children tend to form. Firstly many children of military families do extraordinarily well with there constant moving around (for most think 3 years on average in one location before the next move and over a normal childhood that's about 4 moves). Then there is the group who don't do so well with the moves and struggle with all aspects of adjusting. For this reason in my personal experience most military families with children tend to 'homestead' once their children reach a certain age to provide stability and continuity of education and family life.

Thus, in the private world I'd image the same runs true. I certainly think as two posters here demonstrate it is possible to succeed in moving children. For me the consideration is and always will be at what cost. Any decision is a trade off and I think comes down to assessing the individual children and what you what/ believe is best for them.

kodokan

The 'what ifs' can be hard, aren't they? In my head, I do sometimes imagine what my kids might be like if they'd stayed in the UK (not too hard, as they have same age cousins, some even in the same town). Or if we'd stayed in Switzerland. I expect PF does the same with her kids, what they'd be like now if staying in Scotland/ France had been an option, and they'd chosen to take it. Perhaps even Pulaski wonders what an English-schooled version of his daughter might be like.

For the OP, they're faced with a school move anyway; hopefully the side discussion about stability versus revisiting school choice and encouraging flexibility is helpful for them regardless. And the US has been dangled as a possibility. Even if they don't take it, I guarantee they're now cursed with the what ifs, and will forever wonder what their teens might be doing now as adults if they'd actually completed their education in the US...

vikingsail

Agreed the what if's will get you everytime. I do hope all the different opinions and advice will provide solace.