meauxna

S'ok. Old folk move slower.

Roadster280

This is a very emotive issue, obviously, and for me, it is one of consicence.

If as a UK citizen, I acquire US permanent residency, and eventually qualify for naturalisation as a US citizen, it will be one of the hardest decisions I would ever have to make.

As I understand it, to become a US citizen by naturalisation requires renunciation of past citizenships. To later think "oh that's OK, the UK doesn't recongise the renunciation" and apply for a British passport again is just wrong. It is tantamount to lying to the USCIS.

If one likes the place so much that one choses to take the citizenship of that country, to be prepared to die for that country in its Armed Forces, to take on the sense of natural patriotism for that country, it is wrong to retain the ties to the former country.

Just my view, possibly because I was in the British Army, but it is as wrong as bigamy to me. I just don't know that I could do it. I do know however, that if I did do it, it is a one-way choice. For me, anyway. Fortunately, I have quite some time before I even have the opportunity to make the choice.

Just my two cents.

meauxna

The morality issue has been debated here many times (good debates, too---worth looking up). Now, you may consider it semantics, but it would be a good idea for you to review the oath itself, and the specific language. You may change your mind?

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/oath.htm
The oath of allegiance is:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

In some cases, INS allows the oath to be taken without the clauses:

". . .that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by law. . ."

Roadster280

Thanks for posting the oath. It basically confirms my thoughts. One is required to make the leap, in unambiguous terms. So to go crawling back to Mummy for a British passport (crucially whilst still holding a US one) is against "renounce and abjure all allegiance".

I haven't made any kind of decision at all, other than I am happy living here. Should that continue for another 5 or 6 years, then I would be in the bracket for naturalisation, and I'd have to consider things at that point. It's just a moral dilemma that I needn't worry about anytime soon. Foolish me!

RoadWarriorFromLP

The US allows dual citizenship, although it is possible in some cases to lose the US citizenship. From the State Department:

[A] person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship

Note the last bit -- if you purposefully obtain the other citizenship and do so with the intent of giving up the US citizenship, then you can lose your US citizenship.

In other words, you can get another citizenship, and keep your US citizenship if you don't renounce it. However, you are required to enter and exit the US on your US passport.

There is some confusion about this because the law did once bar dual citizenship, and because dual citizenship is not exactly encouraged. But bottom line is that becoming a dual citizen is certainly permitted and not illegal.

Link to State Department: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1753.html

Elvira

Might I suggest you use less emotive language? What you do is your business, but don't go and and make derogatory remarks about those of us who hold dual citizenship, of whatever nations.

Especially for families where the parents are of different nationalities, dual citizenship is the only sensible way to go. Their children would normally have dual citizenship as a matter of course, and for them to renounce one of them would be foolish in the extreme.

Expat life is simply too complicated for your high-and-mighty notions of loyalty to just one country.

Jerseygirl

I feel exactly the same way as you. Have had a green card for 8 yrs. Husband and daughter have filled in the citizenship forms, I've filled in half of mine but just can't bring myself to complete it. They have been laying there half complete for 2 months, I just can't bring myself to apply for US citizenship when I know I will always be British. I am well aware of the advantages BE members have told me so in past threads.

Jerseygirl

I hope you don't think of my post like that...but afterall I am a R.H.

Elvira

Sweetheart I can empathise with your feelings - it's what would make US citizenship very difficult for me too...

It's just the repeated use of emotive language by that other bloke that got to me. What's the point - why do people deliberately try to antagonise other posters?

meauxna

I confess that I follow these conversations with interest. I grew up dual and never really thought about "citizenship" in these flag-waving or teary-eyed terms before. As a child, I just acknowledged that Mummy talks funny. (she's about over it now)

And yet, with the DAH about to raise his hand, comments like the above do give me pause. For about one second.
My husband served in the Royal Navy and did all that blah blah. Best time of his life. (most of it spent in Asia btw) Then he was on the Fire Brigade. Also the best time of his life. Then he moved overseas to an island and lived off his retirement. Best time of his life PLUS he got to meet me! Moved to America--you guessed it---best time of his life. He loves it here and doesn't pine for the UK in the least. He served that country above and beyond most, IMO and just doesn't feel the same as so many of the posts I read here. It's probably me that would encourage him to keep his UK pp so we have an easier time living in Europe.

While I don't resent those who would live here forever and not naturalize out of some deep loyalty to the Old Country, I don't understand them either. Maybe it's from growing up on the frontier, or moving around too much as an impressionable youngster, but I do agree with the hub: Home is where you hang your hat. Do the best you can for the community you're in and keep an open mind. You never know what the tide will bring in!

Bob

very true, you never know what changes in immigration laws could come in the future, so safest thing, especially for anyone with kids would be to get citizenship...

AdobePinon

I don't agree with you. He's just articulating how he feels. I don't agree with him - I'll be happy to carry both passports - but I understand how he feels.

Jerseygirl

That's just it.....I don't know if I will be here forever and to take US citizenship just so I can pop back and to at will just doesn't seem right. I am not criticising others.....its just a decision I am struggling with.

Elvira

Well, if telling us that holding dual nationality is equivalent to "crawling back to Mummy for a British passport" is not emotive language, then I don't know what is...

AdobePinon

He's got a valid point - I'll be 'crawling back to Mummy' myself before too long. And I won't be ashamed of it.

Edit: Since Mummy want me to remain a subject as much as I want to retain unfettered access to the EU, I'll gladly take her up on her kind offer and remain at least one body of water away in whichever direction I am then most happy.