Giantaxe

It's the "too big to fail" argument, essentially. Personally I disagree with Shultz's argument now that there are many Japanese transplant factories in the US that seem to be able to produce relatively reliable and efficient cars that people actually want to buy.

Ash UK/US

I usually find much better sales at Younkers for the bigger brand names. Everything is A LOT cheaper at Kohls or Penny's. I also constantly get coupons from Kohl's, Penny's and Younker that are good on everything (except yellow dot at younkers). The ones I get from Macy's are usually only good on regular priced items.

Ray

They don't have the spectre of generations of pension and medical cost of retirees to pay for ...GM have to add $1500 per car built to pay for these past Union agreements ..

englishinfl

Can't argue with any of that logic.... not that I'd argue in anycase.

Giantaxe

Indeed. As I pointed out earlier in this thread:

englishinfl

If they built the cars people wanted, Ray, then perhaps they may have had less problems selling them, and been able to retain their crown as america's number one seller.
Business isn't all about price.
Fuel efficiency and specification, as well as long term reliability weren't high on GM's or Fords list for much too long. If you're in competition in business you have to keep up, not just assume that you can't be touched by anyone else because they're new on the block.

Janek66

[QUOTE=Giantaxe;6966395]The fundamental problem is lack of credit - for businesses, consumers etc. Both the UK and the US have overwhelmingly credit driven economies. You can hardly blame the media for the fact that the banks are in such a mess from past lax lending that they are now unwilling to lend. That's the reason, for example, GM car sales are the lowest per-capita since '45: most people buy cars with a loan and they simply can't get one at the moment.

I actually wasn't blaming the media for the lack of credit, but more for fanning the fire.

Janek66

As for the auto makers, they have been ignoring the general trend from around the world for years and years. I haven't heard any of the terms of the bailout yet but I hope that it has some serious strings attached.

Bluegrass Lass

That's not entirely true. There are quite a few of the Japanese auto makers that have plants here. I used to work for Toyota, so, I know for a fact that they have at least 5 plants here. And Honda has quite a few too. Ultimately, these are Japanese owned companies, but the cars are 'made in America' and provide employment to Americans.

Maybe it's unpatriotic of me, but at the end of the day, I don't care if the profits are sent to Japan or stay here, as long as I get my paycheck (& I'd lay odds that most workers here feel the same way). For all we know, GM or Ford could be bought out by the Japanese, and then they won't be American owned at all (don't know how the unions will like that since Toyota is non-union). That would be a better alternative than them going bankrupt.

I'll go on the record as saying, they reap what they sow. They did not have the long term foresight to see that they should have shifted their products to meet the change in markets. They couldn't have been that blind. I have no sympathy for them, and while I hate to see hardworking people lose their jobs, sometimes the deadweight has to be cut off, ya know.

englishinfl

Agreed.

robin1234

Subaru too .. "Made in Indiana" it says on my Outback. Isn't it also the case that many cars from foreign-owned companies (e.g. Japanese) have a higher proportion of US manufactured content, than some of the vehicles from US-owned companies such as Ford and GM?

Ash UK/US

Hubby bought 2 GM cars (he bought both brand new) each had a 3 year warrenty. He had engine problems with both! He swears he would never buy GM again. We now own 2 Hyundai's (Santa Fe and Elantra) the Santa Fe is made in Alabama both were bought brand new and came with a 10 year warrenty, if anything happened to either of them (non mechanical) I would not hesitate to buy another Hyundai.

Rete

I believe you are correct.

However, the auto industry is the life blood of many towns across America. Here in Tarrytown, NY, which had a huge GM plant, suffered greatly when they closed up shop in the late 90's, The town's middle class started dying out because they did not have the skills to work in Manhattan at white collar jobs and manufacturing jobs were hard to come by. Yonkers had long since lost the many manufacturing plants that it was the home of, i.e. Otis Elevator, Alexander Smith Carpet Shop.

At the present moment, those who took their severance package and who have not moved away have converted their homes in multi-dwellings and are renting to the hordes of hispanics who have made Westchester their home. I just read the stats on that yesterday on a wiki and I see it because that is the town my daughter and her family live in.

We need the US auto manufacturers to be up and optional. They need to cut their profit margins and end their perk systems so that jobs remain in the US. Those jobs help fuel the economy and bring money to the government's coffers. If they fold it is opened that they are bought out and made optional by foreign auto manufacturers.

Rete

Don't have a clue where my Hyundai's were made. Never looked. I previously owned a Ford Escort 1991 bought brand new. A great car and it never gave me a problem. I sold it to my daughter and she drove it into the ground and finally got rid of it in 2005. In 2001 I bought an Elantra and loved it and in 2005 I upgraded to the Sonata and it is okay. I want to go back to the Elantra next year. My other daughter has the Santa Fe and loves that.

Ash UK/US

My 2008 Elantra was made in Korea I believe. I think it is only the Santa Fe and Sonata that are made in Alabama. Just out of interest why do you prefer the Elantra? we were thinking about the Sonata but decided not too as I only wanted a little run around to go back and forth to work.