Death, WEP, SSI and NI
Mar 21st 2024, 6:28 pm
#1
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 24
Death, WEP, SSI and NI
My husband passed away in March 2023. He was 63.5yrs old.
I am 64.5 yrs old and intend to file a claim to collect SS on my own record until FRA when I will switch to survivor benefits on my husband's record as they survivor benefit will be significantly higher than what I can claim at aged 70.
In starting the claim online for SS, I am faced with some questions!
I am a UK-US dual citizen and emigrated to the US in 1995 with my husband who was also a UK-US citizen. We were both born In the UK.
Both my husband and I worked in the UK prior to coming to America and have enough credits In the UK National Insurance system to receive a reduced state pension. I am not eligible to claim that state pension until late 2025 (nor was my husband, we have an almost Identical birthdate). And, I may not claim that pension at all.
How will this impact my SS payments? I am not entitled to begin a claim in the UK until October 2025, nor receive any payments before then.
I paid into the SS system in the US from April 2000 until Dec 2023.
I have read about WEP and understand it for the most part; however, I am not clear how it will impact my US SS payment if I am not claiming the UK payment. I will be filing for my US SS early (aged 64,5mths) and will receive the reduced rate.
I have started my online application and have answered YES to the question "are you eligible for benefits under a foreign social security system" and have answered NO to "applied or intend to apply under foreign country's social security system". I have not yet applied, nor can I officially apply and I may, in fact, never apply.
For my husband, I answered "Prior spouse worked outside the US:" Yes . "Prior spouse covered under foreign social security":No as he is no longer covered under the UK NI payment as he is dead. Should I answer YES to that question instead as technically he was covered (but how can he be now that he is dead)?
I have not yet clicked "Submit" as I am unsure about the answers to these questions. I don't want to inadvertently answer incorrectly and cause delays or confusion in my application processing.
Can anyone help clarify my position? Do you have any guidance or advice that will be helpful? I've Googled a lot, read a lot, but can't seem to find the answers I need.
Thank you all! I appreciate any assistance you can give.
Please ask any questions you may need in order to be able to give me clarification on my position!
I am 64.5 yrs old and intend to file a claim to collect SS on my own record until FRA when I will switch to survivor benefits on my husband's record as they survivor benefit will be significantly higher than what I can claim at aged 70.
In starting the claim online for SS, I am faced with some questions!
I am a UK-US dual citizen and emigrated to the US in 1995 with my husband who was also a UK-US citizen. We were both born In the UK.
Both my husband and I worked in the UK prior to coming to America and have enough credits In the UK National Insurance system to receive a reduced state pension. I am not eligible to claim that state pension until late 2025 (nor was my husband, we have an almost Identical birthdate). And, I may not claim that pension at all.
How will this impact my SS payments? I am not entitled to begin a claim in the UK until October 2025, nor receive any payments before then.
I paid into the SS system in the US from April 2000 until Dec 2023.
I have read about WEP and understand it for the most part; however, I am not clear how it will impact my US SS payment if I am not claiming the UK payment. I will be filing for my US SS early (aged 64,5mths) and will receive the reduced rate.
I have started my online application and have answered YES to the question "are you eligible for benefits under a foreign social security system" and have answered NO to "applied or intend to apply under foreign country's social security system". I have not yet applied, nor can I officially apply and I may, in fact, never apply.
For my husband, I answered "Prior spouse worked outside the US:" Yes . "Prior spouse covered under foreign social security":No as he is no longer covered under the UK NI payment as he is dead. Should I answer YES to that question instead as technically he was covered (but how can he be now that he is dead)?
I have not yet clicked "Submit" as I am unsure about the answers to these questions. I don't want to inadvertently answer incorrectly and cause delays or confusion in my application processing.
Can anyone help clarify my position? Do you have any guidance or advice that will be helpful? I've Googled a lot, read a lot, but can't seem to find the answers I need.
Thank you all! I appreciate any assistance you can give.
Please ask any questions you may need in order to be able to give me clarification on my position!
Mar 22nd 2024, 2:00 am
#2
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Death, WEP, SSI and NI
I know this doesn't answer any of your specific questions, but based on your description, it appears likely that you could make voluntary contributions for years 2006-2007, through to 2023-2024, so 17 years (or enough to bring you up to 35 years if that is less than 17 years). And if you apply to pay at the Class 2 rate it will only cost you £163/yr. At that rate your voluntary contributions (£amt) will be repaid to you in the first 7½ months of your retirement. If you have to pay the Class 3 rate it's still a good deal and it will take about 4 years for your contributions to be repaid to you in increased pension payments.
And, to your point about WEP, any UK state pension received as a result of voluntary contributions while you were living in the US are EXCLUDED from the WEP calculation.
And, to your point about WEP, any UK state pension received as a result of voluntary contributions while you were living in the US are EXCLUDED from the WEP calculation.
Mar 22nd 2024, 8:03 pm
#3
Furby
Joined: Apr 2016
Location: St. Louis, MO.
Posts: 874
Re: Death, WEP, SSI and NI
First and foremost, you absolutely should apply for the UK state pension, and as Pulasaki stated make as many voluntary contributions as possible to increase the U.K. pension. The worst that can happen is that your Social Security will be WEP’d by up to 50% of whatever the UK provides but it won’t even be that much and in any case you will be well ahead financially by claiming both social security and the UK pension.
With regard to your specific questions you should answer Yes to eligibility for a foreign pension, and Yes to the intent to apply for such a pension. What will happen is that the social security office will eventually (usually in a few months) contact you to get more information on the foreign pension, usually how much will it be and when will you get it. You can respond that you don't know how much it will be until you claim and in your case I would defer claiming until age 70 (unless you need the funds prior to that). Don’t elaborate on how much it might be, keep it simple and truthful which is that you don’t know. You have a requirement to contact social security when you do claim, and they may periodically check in with you anyway.
The reason for not claiming until age 70 is that WEP will be applied to the social security claimed on your own record, when you switch over to your spousal pension WEP will not be applied. Therefore you can avoid WEP altogether if you delay claiming the U.K. pension until you receive the spousal pension. The UK pension will grow by about 5% for every year it is deferred after you reach pension age in order to pay you back for the years you deferred. If you are in good health you should be better off financially by deferring your U.K. pension. Age 70 is the maximum you can defer it to. If not in good health or the funds would be very useful now take it as soon as you need it.
Because you worked for 23 years you should find that the WEP reduction is less than 50% of the amount of any UK pensions subject to WEP, probably more like 35% but it is also going to be dependent upon other factors such as any other foreign pension you may be entitled to, how much your social security is, and how much of the UK pension and other pensions were based on voluntary contributions. Any portion of a foreign pension attributable to voluntary contributions escapes WEP. The key is that no matter what the WEP deduction is you will always be better off claiming foreign pensions versus not claiming them.
If you do decide to make voluntary contributions whether retrospectively or for the next future year or two that is open to you, then you should get on it ASAP. Processing such applications can take a while (like a year or more) and the door will slam shut when you reach U.K. pension age so don't delay on that.
With regard to your specific questions you should answer Yes to eligibility for a foreign pension, and Yes to the intent to apply for such a pension. What will happen is that the social security office will eventually (usually in a few months) contact you to get more information on the foreign pension, usually how much will it be and when will you get it. You can respond that you don't know how much it will be until you claim and in your case I would defer claiming until age 70 (unless you need the funds prior to that). Don’t elaborate on how much it might be, keep it simple and truthful which is that you don’t know. You have a requirement to contact social security when you do claim, and they may periodically check in with you anyway.
The reason for not claiming until age 70 is that WEP will be applied to the social security claimed on your own record, when you switch over to your spousal pension WEP will not be applied. Therefore you can avoid WEP altogether if you delay claiming the U.K. pension until you receive the spousal pension. The UK pension will grow by about 5% for every year it is deferred after you reach pension age in order to pay you back for the years you deferred. If you are in good health you should be better off financially by deferring your U.K. pension. Age 70 is the maximum you can defer it to. If not in good health or the funds would be very useful now take it as soon as you need it.
Because you worked for 23 years you should find that the WEP reduction is less than 50% of the amount of any UK pensions subject to WEP, probably more like 35% but it is also going to be dependent upon other factors such as any other foreign pension you may be entitled to, how much your social security is, and how much of the UK pension and other pensions were based on voluntary contributions. Any portion of a foreign pension attributable to voluntary contributions escapes WEP. The key is that no matter what the WEP deduction is you will always be better off claiming foreign pensions versus not claiming them.
If you do decide to make voluntary contributions whether retrospectively or for the next future year or two that is open to you, then you should get on it ASAP. Processing such applications can take a while (like a year or more) and the door will slam shut when you reach U.K. pension age so don't delay on that.
Mar 22nd 2024, 10:13 pm
#4
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 24
Re: Death, WEP, SSI and NI
First and foremost, you absolutely should apply for the UK state pension, and as Pulasaki stated make as many voluntary contributions as possible to increase the U.K. pension. The worst that can happen is that your Social Security will be WEP’d by up to 50% of whatever the UK provides but it won’t even be that much and in any case you will be well ahead financially by claiming both social security and the UK pension.
With regard to your specific questions you should answer Yes to eligibility for a foreign pension, and Yes to the intent to apply for such a pension. What will happen is that the social security office will eventually (usually in a few months) contact you to get more information on the foreign pension, usually how much will it be and when will you get it. You can respond that you don't know how much it will be until you claim and in your case I would defer claiming until age 70 (unless you need the funds prior to that). Don’t elaborate on how much it might be, keep it simple and truthful which is that you don’t know. You have a requirement to contact social security when you do claim, and they may periodically check in with you anyway.
The reason for not claiming until age 70 is that WEP will be applied to the social security claimed on your own record, when you switch over to your spousal pension WEP will not be applied. Therefore you can avoid WEP altogether if you delay claiming the U.K. pension until you receive the spousal pension. The UK pension will grow by about 5% for every year it is deferred after you reach pension age in order to pay you back for the years you deferred. If you are in good health you should be better off financially by deferring your U.K. pension. Age 70 is the maximum you can defer it to. If not in good health or the funds would be very useful now take it as soon as you need it.
Because you worked for 23 years you should find that the WEP reduction is less than 50% of the amount of any UK pensions subject to WEP, probably more like 35% but it is also going to be dependent upon other factors such as any other foreign pension you may be entitled to, how much your social security is, and how much of the UK pension and other pensions were based on voluntary contributions. Any portion of a foreign pension attributable to voluntary contributions escapes WEP. The key is that no matter what the WEP deduction is you will always be better off claiming foreign pensions versus not claiming them.
If you do decide to make voluntary contributions whether retrospectively or for the next future year or two that is open to you, then you should get on it ASAP. Processing such applications can take a while (like a year or more) and the door will slam shut when you reach U.K. pension age so don't delay on that.
With regard to your specific questions you should answer Yes to eligibility for a foreign pension, and Yes to the intent to apply for such a pension. What will happen is that the social security office will eventually (usually in a few months) contact you to get more information on the foreign pension, usually how much will it be and when will you get it. You can respond that you don't know how much it will be until you claim and in your case I would defer claiming until age 70 (unless you need the funds prior to that). Don’t elaborate on how much it might be, keep it simple and truthful which is that you don’t know. You have a requirement to contact social security when you do claim, and they may periodically check in with you anyway.
The reason for not claiming until age 70 is that WEP will be applied to the social security claimed on your own record, when you switch over to your spousal pension WEP will not be applied. Therefore you can avoid WEP altogether if you delay claiming the U.K. pension until you receive the spousal pension. The UK pension will grow by about 5% for every year it is deferred after you reach pension age in order to pay you back for the years you deferred. If you are in good health you should be better off financially by deferring your U.K. pension. Age 70 is the maximum you can defer it to. If not in good health or the funds would be very useful now take it as soon as you need it.
Because you worked for 23 years you should find that the WEP reduction is less than 50% of the amount of any UK pensions subject to WEP, probably more like 35% but it is also going to be dependent upon other factors such as any other foreign pension you may be entitled to, how much your social security is, and how much of the UK pension and other pensions were based on voluntary contributions. Any portion of a foreign pension attributable to voluntary contributions escapes WEP. The key is that no matter what the WEP deduction is you will always be better off claiming foreign pensions versus not claiming them.
If you do decide to make voluntary contributions whether retrospectively or for the next future year or two that is open to you, then you should get on it ASAP. Processing such applications can take a while (like a year or more) and the door will slam shut when you reach U.K. pension age so don't delay on that.
