Jimmy Perrine

And we all became citizens. That is the point. You seem to have missed it somehow.
Nice rant though.

--
Martyr Harry "Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Michael D. Young" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hi All!
    > >
    > > Well if you don't ever want to become a U.S. citizen and miss your "home
    > > country", I suggest you go back.
    > >
    > > I think it should be a requirement to live here that you at some point become a
    > > U.S. citizen.
    > >
    > > Don't let the Statute of Liberty hit in the ass on the way out.
    > >
    > >
    > > Take care,
    > >
    > > Mike
    > Listen up there, sparky. One american to another. I think you should personally
    > apologize to each and every non-citizen permanent resident in America. You know,
    > the ones who "miss their home country". The ones who pay the taxes to feed and
    > supply America's military - the instrument of
YOUR
    > freedom, the ones who are "contributing" their dollars to fight the war on
    > terrorism, the ones who are paying their taxes to educate your kids and
put
    > cops on your streets, the ones who are protecting your ungrateful keester while you
    > sit home, wave your flag and complain. AND they're doing it without the right to
    > vote for or against the SOBs in DC who made it so frustrating to get to the US in
    > the first bloody place.
    > Immigrants built "the land of the free" there, chuckles. Chinese, Irish, German,
    > Scottish...who do you think picks your strawberries, MBAs?? These people chose to
    > come to the US for a reason. They chose to live in the US for a reason. Chances
    > are extremely good someone in your family was an immigrant - are you going to tell
    > me they never spoke of "the old
country"?
    > Never missed it? Was just ecstatic every day of their lives to be in the USA??
    > Whether they, or any immigrant alive misses their country is irrelevant in light of
    > what they've done for America in the past, and they're doing for your whiney ass
    > now. Now shut up, grow up, read history and put down the flag.
    > And by the way, Captain America - the Statue of Liberty was a gift from France.
    > And I bet the Frenchman who supervised it's construction missed
his
    > country too.

L D Jones

Quinkman wrote:
    > << Subject: Re: Culture shock? From: L D Jones [email protected] Date: Fri,
    > Aug 9, 2002 10:56 AM Message-id: <[email protected]>
    > >>
    > << The Russians would have crushed the Germans even if the US had never entered
    > the war in Europe. >>
    > only after the Americans softened them up, the Russians were getting their arses
    > kicked bigtime before that

Americans softened them up? Never happened on the Eastern front. In fact, the US
could have opened the "second front" a lot sooner than it
did.

Pussycat

    > Wherever I hang my hat is my home. You need to get over your bigotry and hatred of
    > all things you perceive as "American" because the America I live in is not a
    > Stereotype.
    > --
    > Martyr Harry


Hatred? Bigotry? Have you been reading *my* posts, perchance? For instance, if I
hated America, why would I say "America is a great country - undoubtedly." That was
a direct quote taken from the post you responded to.

The only bigotry I've seen in this NG has been from some Americans towards those they
perceive as foreigners.

Stop twisting facts to suit your own agenda. You only make yourself look silly.

-- cat

Pussycat

    > Blah, blah, blah. you're the one who is going to come live here. Get a clue. you
    > are welcome, just leave your stereotypes at "home" in i. Everyone is different
    > here. Finding those differences in people is part
of
    > the fun. Stereotypes only work for small groups. All Americans do not behave a
    > certain way.

I didn't say they did. Just some. And they all seem to be here. I'm not making
stereotypes - but at the same time I kinda resent being referred to as an
"underclass".

If the clue needs to be gotten, I suggest you buy yourself a nice big magnifying
glass and take a good look around yourself. Again, you twist what people say to suit
yourself. How grown up of you.


    > BTW, most Americans who live two blocks from the store do walk. I have lived all
    > over and NEVER was there a store within walking distance. Cars are necessary in
    > many parts of the US.

I didn't mention anything about cars, shops or walking. I suggest you reply to what
you read - or perhaps read what you're replying to - your choice.

-- cat

Jimmy Perrine

All he said was he thought that all people who come here to live should become a
US citizen. You gleaned all that other junk from foreigner's posts about what
they didn't like as "America" and did not want to become. You can't jump on Mike
for anything but the comment about everyone ought to be required to become a
citizen. Harrumph.

--
Martyr Harry "M1nn0w" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
s.worldnet.att.net...
    > I think it's time to stop being baited by Michael's anti-social postings. Some of
    > you are beginning to paint yourself with the same brush. I am an American. I Love
    > my Country. I flag My flag in the driveway and on my car.
I
    > would offer my life for it as I have done in the past. I don't see
anything
    > wrong with being proud of your country. I still get teary eyed singing the Star
    > Spangled Banner. I am not an idiot. I am not well travelled though I have spent
    > time in Europe. I haven't been outside North America in over 30 years. I don't hold
    > the ideals of this country over any other. I don't believe that my country is
    > always right. In fact there are times when I literally cringe at the way we come
    > across. My wife is Canadian. I fly a large Canadian Flag in my driveway and on my
    > car. I would never think to force my wife to become a citizen. How ludicrous. My
    > point?? You might have noticed that no where in this post do I deride anyones
    > beliefs, religion, or country. My country is populated by Flag waving, gun toting,
    > people. It's a fact. It's something you need to inure yourself to if you
are
    > going to live here. Don't let Michael cause you to start spewing the same poison
    > that he is. You TOO are ambassadors. Your opinions of the American People are ALSO
    > read worldwide. We are not a perfect people. Most of us
try
    > to do the best we can. My wife has never been made to feel unwanted. Certainly
    > she's been kidded and ocasionally she's had to correct some opinions but she loves
    > being here. She wants to be able to affect what happens around her and so she has
    > elected to become a citizen. Her choice. Apologizing beforehand does not make being
    > slapped in the face any less painful. Peace.
    > John & Deb Can/Am'98

Shannon

To MARGARET and NC PENGUIN and others who get "it":

I appreciated your posts, since much of my original question got lost in controversy. I too will probably take US citizenship if I have the opportunity. Australia allows dual citizenship and I would like to join in the formal political process of the US by voting.

However, unlike many posters I don't see USC as defining my identity. Sure, there are many great things about America - but the positive image is the dominant one. Its assumed.

The reason I mentioned the places I have lived is that I didn't expect to feel out of place in America. I immigrated to Australia from South Africa when I was 20. Because Australians tease themselves about their nationality there is not the same kind of nationalism. Its more self-referential. Teasing. Proud but very open. I found it very easy to fit in.

Again, when I moved to Indonesia, I didn't feel a culture shock despite a dramatically different lifestyle. I think it was because I EXPECTED the difference.

When I moved to America I thought it would be easy. Familiar. That I woudl be immediately accepted and understood. That is not the case. Even for those born and raised in western countries, English speakers, Hollywood movie buffs, the US is a foreign country.

That is what I realized.

When I point out differences I do not point them out as deficits. I have now been reading about moving between cultures and apparently it is common to go through the following phases:

1) Admiring and appreciating the novelty of the new place
2) Resenting and feeling tired of trying to adjust to the new place
3) Accepting the new place

I guess I am stuck at step two (Ok, this is the internet so I shall EMPHASIZE that I am Smiling and being wry)

Shannon

Andy Platt

"Jimmy Perrine" <[email protected]> wrote ...

    > All he said was he thought that all people who come here to live should become a US
    > citizen. You gleaned all that other junk from foreigner's
posts

Not true. He also says that advance parole shouldn't be available so you would be
stuck in the US until the INS has got around to approving your permanent residence. I
actually find that more objectionable - I have no problem with people thinking that
permanent residents *should* become US citizens when possible (of course, I don't
think there is anything wrong with them not becoming USCs which is where we disagree)
but actually suggesting a course of action that would hurt pending permanent
residents and their families is just ridiculous.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.

Paulgani

I hereby announce the formation of the ACDPRU (American Citizens for the Domination
of the Permanent Resident Underclass). We're an organization dedicated to the
subjucation of the non-citizen Permanent Residents of the United States. To join,
you must demonstrate that you have belittled a PR who is eligible to become a U.S.
citizen, but has not applied.

Benefits include free "USA: Love it or leave it" bumper stickers, and "Speak English
or get out!" yard signs.

Paulgani

"Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > He's being sarcastic!
    > Andy.
    > --
    > I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination. "pussycat"
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Are there many more at home like you? If so, keep them there, please.
    > The
    > > US is responsible for enough world pollution as it is.
    > >
    > > Thanks SO much.
    > >
    > > --cat (Off to vomit)
    > >
    > >
    > > > > I may be a moron, but the fact remains you are living here, so just
    > > become
    > > > a
    > > > > citizen.
    > > >
    > > > As a fellow USC, I protest. Why are you trying to dilute my power and
    > > > benefits?
    > > >
    > > > I *like* the fact that I don't have to compete with foreigners for
most
    > > > government jobs. I'm thrilled that they are ineligible for lots of
    > social
    > > > benefits. Also that they pay huge inheritance taxes when their USC
    > spouse
    > > > dies. If they commit any serious crime, we get to kick their asses
out
    > > the
    > > > country! And hey, my vote rules over them - they can complain about
the
    > > > U.S. government all they want, but they don't have the power to make changes,
    > > > like us. WE rule over THEM.
    > > >
    > > > As a USC, I'm thrilled that we have a large underclass which
essentially
    > > has
    > > > no voice, fewer rights, and fewer privledges, but has to dish out the
    > > same,
    > > > or even higher taxes than we do.
    > > >
    > > > Let's make sure we keep our advantage!
    > > >
    > > > Paulgani
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >

Pussycat

    > I hereby announce the formation of the ACDPRU (American Citizens for the Domination
    > of the Permanent Resident Underclass). We're an organization dedicated to the
    > subjucation of the non-citizen Permanent Residents of the United States. To join,
    > you must demonstrate that you have belittled a PR who is eligible to become a U.S.
    > citizen, but has not applied.
    > Benefits include free "USA: Love it or leave it" bumper stickers, and
"Speak
    > English or get out!" yard signs.
    > Paulgani

Well, I'm okay on the "speak English" bit - but do we spell and pronounce it
the same?

-- cat

Jimmy Perrine

I may be silly, you're right. But I do not reflect the views of all Americans. No
ill will is meant in your direction as a foreigner. Hell, I married a foreigner.
She had her sister and brother visit and I felt like the foreigner. They all spoke
their language and cooked their food and I was the odd man out. My wife came to
America to go to school, not to marry a foreigner. So, I know what it is like to
feel like the foreigner. I understand homesickness too. We lived a lot of different
places due to my dad's job. Everytime I got used to living in one part of the US,
with their pronunciations and slang words, we would move somewhere else. I was
always "the new guy" wherever I went. But I learned that each time we moved, if when
we got to the new place, I would set up my "area" and go about decorating it as I
liked. I knew that we might move in 6 months or 2 years, or sometime, but I had to
set up my place and then I could cope with everything else later, from the safety of
"my place".

Anyway, I hope you always retain your individualism. But, I still feel that if you
are going to live here, you might as well find something that you enjoy and do that.
You should never become a stereotypical American. You should become the American
that only you can become. It's a process. You'll warm up to Americans, we're not all
brash and rude or whatever type you are thinking of . We don't all carry guns and we
are not all afraid of people around us maybe carrying guns. There are different
places in the US, some that require that everyone carry a gun.. to places that don't
allow guns at all. You're probably safer in the town that requires guns to be
carried. LOL!

Anyway, WELCOME to "my America", where you will be treated well by most but watch out
for the liars and cheats.

--
Martyr Harry "pussycat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
k...
    > > Wherever I hang my hat is my home. You need to get over your bigotry
and
    > > hatred of all things you perceive as "American" because the America I
live
    > > in is not a Stereotype.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Martyr Harry
    > Hatred? Bigotry? Have you been reading *my* posts, perchance? For instance, if I
    > hated America, why would I say "America is a great
country -
    > undoubtedly." That was a direct quote taken from the post you responded
to.
    > The only bigotry I've seen in this NG has been from some Americans towards those
    > they perceive as foreigners.
    > Stop twisting facts to suit your own agenda. You only make yourself look silly.
    > -- cat

Jimmy Perrine

Hey, now. I did not read that part, I guess. No, I don't agree with that part. I
do think it is beneficial to many people to become citizens and ought to be a
priority for most. I don't understand that not being able to move on through life on
the path one has taken.

--
Martyr Harry "Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Jimmy Perrine" <[email protected]> wrote ...
    > > All he said was he thought that all people who come here to live should become a
    > > US citizen. You gleaned all that other junk from foreigner's
    > posts
    > Not true. He also says that advance parole shouldn't be available so you would be
    > stuck in the US until the INS has got around to approving your permanent residence.
    > I actually find that more objectionable - I have no problem with people thinking
    > that permanent residents *should* become US citizens when possible (of course, I
    > don't think there is anything wrong with them not becoming USCs which is where we
    > disagree) but actually suggesting a course of action that would hurt pending
    > permanent residents and their families is just ridiculous.
    > Andy.
    > --
    > I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.

Pussycat

Well, thanks for that. It means something.

I don't hate America or Americans - hell, I married one!

If I "hate" anything, it's the assumption that there's an "us and them". I've come
across that a lot - and not only here. I've travelled a bit these last few years and
become more cosmopolitan in outlook. I suppose I expect the same from everyone else.

I'm glad you're not stereotypical, but then I've never met a stereotypical American,
so what would I know? I've met lots of Americans and most of them have been
intelligent, enlightened individuals - that's what makes the other sort all the more
unpleasant.

Seeing it from the other side of the fence, my husband, as the foreigner American
over here, has occasionally been the butt of the "stereotypical, brash, loudmouthed
Yank" image before he's even said a word! Fortunately, it's been a rare occurrence,
but it's the impression people get from those who open their mouths and let their
bellies rumble.

For what it's worth, I think America is a beautiful country in many places and has a
lot of interesting things to offer. No, it'll never be home, so I suppose I'll be
like one of the old fashioned immigrants and try to make out of it what I can
without losing my roots, but it will be an adventure and that's a good thing.
Adventures stop you getting stale. And I'm sure that in time it can become the next
best thing to home. It will be easier for me because I've met most of my husbands
close friends and they've become my friends too, so there's something to start off
with, something to make it feel more "homey", having people you know and feel
comfortable with around you.

It's a damn shame I don't play the bagpipes, I could have taken them and made my
presence known BIG time! Heh....

Cheers, -- cat





    > I may be silly, you're right. But I do not reflect the views of all Americans. No
    > ill will is meant in your direction as a foreigner. Hell,
I
    > married a foreigner. She had her sister and brother visit and I felt like the
    > foreigner. They all spoke their language and cooked their food and I was the odd
    > man out. My wife came to America to go to school, not to
marry
    > a foreigner. So, I know what it is like to feel like the foreigner. I understand
    > homesickness too. We lived a lot of different places due to my dad's job.
    > Everytime I got used to living in one part of the US, with
their
    > pronunciations and slang words, we would move somewhere else. I was
always
    > "the new guy" wherever I went. But I learned that each time we moved, if when we
    > got to the new place, I would set up my "area" and go about decorating it as I
    > liked. I knew that we might move in 6 months or 2
years,
    > or sometime, but I had to set up my place and then I could cope with everything
    > else later, from the safety of "my place".
    > Anyway, I hope you always retain your individualism. But, I still feel
that
    > if you are going to live here, you might as well find something that you enjoy and
    > do that. You should never become a stereotypical American. You should become the
    > American that only you can become. It's a process. You'll warm up to Americans,
    > we're not all brash and rude or whatever type you are thinking of . We don't all
    > carry guns and we are not all afraid
of
    > people around us maybe carrying guns. There are different places in the
US,
    > some that require that everyone carry a gun.. to places that don't allow guns at
    > all. You're probably safer in the town that requires guns to be carried. LOL!
    > Anyway, WELCOME to "my America", where you will be treated well by most
but
    > watch out for the liars and cheats.
    > --
    > Martyr Harry "pussycat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >     ...
    > >
    > > > Wherever I hang my hat is my home. You need to get over your bigotry
    > and
    > > > hatred of all things you perceive as "American" because the America I
    > live
    > > > in is not a Stereotype.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Martyr Harry
    > >
    > >
    > > Hatred? Bigotry? Have you been reading *my* posts, perchance? For instance, if
    > > I hated America, why would I say "America is a great
    > country -
    > > undoubtedly." That was a direct quote taken from the post you responded
    > to.
    > >
    > > The only bigotry I've seen in this NG has been from some Americans
towards
    > > those they perceive as foreigners.
    > >
    > > Stop twisting facts to suit your own agenda. You only make yourself
look
    > > silly.
    > >
    > > -- cat
    > >
    > >

Quinkman

<< Subject: Re: Culture shock? From: "Steve" [email protected] Date: Fri, Aug 9,
2002 12:15 PM Message-id: <[email protected]>

    >>Quinkman,

    >>I'm going to enjoy this.

I figuered, you're a cheap date

Saying this and doing this, because I know how it'll affect you and all those like
you. I'm going to bring my wife - my foreign wife - to the states, and I'm going
to do it legally. I'm going to get her her green card, and actively DIScourage her
and all other LEGAL immigrants from seeking citizenship. Whether they listen or
not is their business, but I will. And I'm going to enjoy living with the knowlege
that I've told you this. Why? Because you'll sit home and stew over the thought.
You'll know that she's not alone...THOUSANDS of immigrants EVERY YEAR come into the
US, and a lot of them will NEVER become citizens. And there's not a thing you can
do about it. And you'll stay awake at night, pissed off at your politicians for
allowing this to happen, but the law can't be changed. It'll never be changed.
The immigrants, families of immigrants, the advocates for them like the ACLU will
challenge any law that would force citizenship upon them. You know it, I know it.
And you'll sit there and fume. Chances are someone like you isn't pro-American,
just anti-foreign...a racist. Be that as it may you, and people like you, are
powerless to stop it. You think you can rule the "underclass". The "underclass"
rules you. Think about it. Have a beer. Then think about it some more.

    >> ok, thought about, you're right, some will always be viewed as foriegners

in some cases, immigrants not becomming citizens is preferred

Donna Maindrault

In article <[email protected]>, NC Penguin
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Since arriving in the US, I too have been obsessively scanning food packaging to
    > see the amount of sugar (especially breakfast cereal. Also checking for GM
    > products, bovine growth hormone, addititives, etc. Just ask my husband) and missing
    > fresh fish.

Most of this thread has been pretty entertaining, but this is just silly. Nostalgic
for safe food in the UK? They're essentially quarantined; no one but the captive
natives are willing to eat their meat. The mercury level in the fish is high enough
that the US government usually warns pregnant women traveling there to avoid it.

I admit that I was leery of eating Walmart meat while visiting my parents; I'm
fortunate enough to have access to Niman Ranch and d'Artagnan meat at my local
market. I understand where you're coming from. And if you were French or Japanese,
I'd understand your complaint. We do have much less concern about the origins of our
food than they have. But the UK? Perhaps your concern for the health of family
members who remain there has clouded your objectivity.

As an added bonus, you can find plenty of French, Italian, Chinese, Indian, and
Mexican food here, even in suburbia. Although I have to admit, I've never heard of an
English restaurant.

-Donna

Mjones

You need how to learn to spell first. Its "subjugation". Mike
--
who let this guy natz anyhow


"paulgani" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I hereby announce the formation of the ACDPRU (American Citizens for the Domination
    > of the Permanent Resident Underclass). We're an organization dedicated to the
    > subjucation of the non-citizen Permanent Residents of the United States. To join,
    > you must demonstrate that you have belittled a PR who is eligible to become a U.S.
    > citizen, but has not applied.
    > Benefits include free "USA: Love it or leave it" bumper stickers, and
"Speak
    > English or get out!" yard signs.
    > Paulgani
    > "Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > He's being sarcastic!
    > >
    > > Andy.
    > >
    > > --
    > > I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination. "pussycat"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Are there many more at home like you? If so, keep them there, please.
    > > The
    > > > US is responsible for enough world pollution as it is.
    > > >
    > > > Thanks SO much.
    > > >
    > > > --cat (Off to vomit)
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > > I may be a moron, but the fact remains you are living here, so
just
    > > > become
    > > > > a
    > > > > > citizen.
    > > > >
    > > > > As a fellow USC, I protest. Why are you trying to dilute my power
and
    > > > > benefits?
    > > > >
    > > > > I *like* the fact that I don't have to compete with foreigners for
    > most
    > > > > government jobs. I'm thrilled that they are ineligible for lots of
    > > social
    > > > > benefits. Also that they pay huge inheritance taxes when their USC
    > > spouse
    > > > > dies. If they commit any serious crime, we get to kick their asses
    > out
    > > > the
    > > > > country! And hey, my vote rules over them - they can complain about
    > the
    > > > > U.S. government all they want, but they don't have the power to make changes,
    > > > > like us. WE rule over THEM.
    > > > >
    > > > > As a USC, I'm thrilled that we have a large underclass which
    > essentially
    > > > has
    > > > > no voice, fewer rights, and fewer privledges, but has to dish out
the
    > > > same,
    > > > > or even higher taxes than we do.
    > > > >
    > > > > Let's make sure we keep our advantage!
    > > > >
    > > > > Paulgani
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >