KateSH

Hello,
I have received some very helpful feedback from forum users about the pros and cons of living in London verses New York with my family (me, my husband, and two young sons). The question was posed as a result of us possibly having a choice in which of these country destinations we end up in.
I am repeatedly told that for NY (even though we will not live in NY, but rather either Greenwich (or nearby) or Summit (or nearby)), we will 'need a lot of money to live comfortably'. I appreciate that rent and property tax is very high in both US places, but my very rough calculations suggested that our cost of living in London (particularly given that in the UK our boys will attend a fee paying school - approx 20k pounds for both per year, whereas in the States they will attend local school; and because of higher UK income tax) would be comparable to our two proposed US destinations.
So I am interested, and I know this will be entirely subjective and based on the lifestyle people lead, but does anyone have a ball park figure for what a family would need to earn to live comfortably in London (I am looking at Chislehurst) with private education thrown in (15,000-20,000 pounds per year for two children) compared to living in either Greenwich (CT) or Summit (NJ) with no school fees?
Thank you in advance.

christmasoompa

I don't know about Chislehurst ('countryside'?!?), but we live in Berkshire and hubby commutes in to London, so if it helps here are our monthly expenses. We are a family of four and live in a 4500 sq ft house (old, so not particularly energy efficient!).

Council tax - £253 a month.

Food bill - approx £80 a week.

Pets - insurance, food, grooming, etc for numerous pets including a dog & pony, approx £800 a year.

Phone/internet/tv - £25 a month (unlimited calls including mobiles, internet tv and unlimited broadband).

Water - we're not on mains water, so no cost. But in our last house we paid about £150 a year if that helps.

Sewage - we're not on mains sewage, so have a treatment plant and that needs emptying every 3-4 years at a cost of £80.

Electricity - £275 a month (we are solely electric, not on mains gas, and run an electric Aga and underfloor heating throughout the house, so that does everything).

TV licence - £12 a month

Schooling - no cost, the schools in our area are among the best in the country so we don't feel a need to pay for private.

Car - to fill my car up is approx £55, I don't do much mileage so I only need to fill up once a month. Hubby even less as he cycles to the station so doesn't use his car for his commute. My car tax is £110 a year.

Monthly train ticket - £343 (but yours will be a lot less as you'll be in the London suburbs).

Clothes - shopping is very cheap here. I buy the kids clothes at Primark, or supermarkets, or H&M and spend about £400 a year for their wardrobes.

Mobile phone bill - £25 a month (unlimited data, calls etc, for an iPhone)

Kids activities - vary from free for various after school clubs (cricket for my son, choir for my daughter, etc) to £10 a lesson for horse riding, £40 a season for rugby, £70 a term for ballet, and about the same again for tennis lessons. Cubs is about £36 a term I think off the top of my head.

I can't think of any other regular expenses other than house rental/mortgage, but that will obviously depend on what you buy or rent.

I've no idea how that will compare to bills in the US, but hope it gives you a bit of a comparison at least.

Good luck deciding.

KateSH

Thank you Christmasoompa. This is very helpful. I would be very happy to send our children to a good local school but as we will not be in the UK until July, and because we have only just learned of our move, I can only assume that we will not get into most (good) schools. Our thinking is that we put them into a private school for a year and if we are happy with it we may keep them there, otherwise, given that we will be in the UK, and hopefully in the area we want in terms of local school, we can transfer the children across then.
I am amazed by your weekly food bill. Food in Singapore is outrageously priced, so there will certainly be a saving there.
Thank you again.....

christmasoompa

I would double check the tax thing, perhaps with another thread solely on that subject. I've no first hand knowledge of US taxes at all, but everything I've read on the forum seems to indicate that by the time you've paid state income tax, city income tax, etc, it will even out with the UK.

So perhaps worth a further investigation/thread, or a search of the forums which may well throw up the answer.

Good luck.

christmasoompa

No probs. You may well find that you do get your children in to a good school - our children were both 'in year' applications done after the cut off, and we got them in to our Ofsted 'Outstanding' local primary school. So worth looking in to at least, you may find that even if they're full, if you add them to the waiting list you'll get a place before the September.

Best of luck!

Bob

I hate you right now

$120 a month for the bundle and it's shit.

The other thing to consider for the OP would be start up costs. No US credit history means you might have anything from $50-600 a utility deposit, plus not getting the best rates for any loans, especially car insurance as you'll have no US driving history.

Oh and cost of groceries in the US, lot more affected by regional/seasonal variation than I've experienced in the UK and half decent quality stuff here really isn't cheap, especially if you want to eat half healthily.

Jerseygirl

We lived in an affluent area of NJ...30 due west of Manhattan. Council/property taxes, utility bills, cell phones, cable/internet etc stated above....are a fraction of what we paid each month. For good state schools you need to live in an affluent area...then you will pay extremely high property taxes as they fund the local schools. $20K upwards per year for a house approx 4,500 sq ft.

WEBlue

Sorry KateSH, I haven't read all of your threads on your location search... but if no one has yet mentioned the City-data site to you, you should definitely check it out.

This is the Homepage, where you can find lots of info on specific US states and cities, such as taxes of all kinds including property, demographics, education & salary levels, etc.

City-Data.com - Stats about all US cities - real estate, relocation info, crime, house prices, cost of living, races, home value estimator, recent sales, income, photos, schools, maps, weather, neighborhoods, and more

Then there is the city-data forum, organized by state, where you can go to ask specific questions about towns, neighbourhoods, the "feel" of a place, whatever.... People of all kinds who live there post answers. They welcome comparison questions. You can also do a search on old threads re: an area you're interested in.

City-Data.com Forum: Relocation, Moving, General and Local City Discussions

I found it an invaluable help in our search for a town....

goatherder

Hi KateSH

I lived in London (Maida Vale) for 10 years and then moved to the US to near Summit (New Providence and now on to Long Hill). I then moved back to London again for 2 years and then back to NJ around 3 yrs ago.

From a tax standpoint I find the US to be less overall but that heavily depends on what the working situation is and also your investment income. My other half didn't work in either country and hence I find the US taxes (including Federal, State and Town) to be less than what we paid in London. Particularly when I include the school fees we (my company) paid in London for the kids. Kids (7 and 8) both attend the local schools here. Generally we are happy with them but may consider private for High School.

I was paid in US dollars in both locations with a Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA) in the UK. The prior 10 years in the UK I was local. At the end of our expat assignment I was offered a local position (again) but I found that the salary was less than what we would need to live our current lifestyle. We did consider moving to the "countryside" - St Albans area - but found with the commute costs / housing costs it was still looking significantly more expensive that what was on offer from a US standpoint.

Note - I do not work regularly in NYC and are based for work in NJ. If you need to work in NYC then you need to consider the transport and tax cost of doing so. When considering alternative job prospects in NYC I generally add 5-10% cost at least (plus the commute time)

I have friends that live in Greenwich, CT and generally they describe a much higher cost than what we have in NJ for property taxes, etc...

My US effective tax rate for 2014 was around 26% including Federal, State and Town Property Tax. My UK rate would be around 35% or so is what I calculated. That includes investment income (both short and long term) of around 20% of my salary.

Any questions please ask

Goat.

Geezer123

We really need to get an idea of your salary but realistically and I live in Greenwich...the UK outside of London commuting to New York is a far more costly exercise

KateSH

Thank you everyone for your very helpful contributions. I would think our costs in the US are going to be less, factoring in taxes, house prices, commuting costs and education (we are likely to do private education in the UK (at least for the first year or two) and public in the US (at least for primary).
So from a financial perspective, the US "wins". Now to work out which country I would rather live in? I have lived in the UK before, though our circumstances (mainly no children) were vastly different to now. While I am very drawn to the UK, I wonder if the US wouldnt be a better option from a 'new adventure' perspective.
Thanks again for your comments.

Nutmegger

As you are looking for somewhere with a good commute to NYC, have you considered Westchester County, New York? Just as Greenwich is a convenient stop on the New Haven Line of the Metro-North Railroad into Grand Central, there are many nice towns on the Harlem Line, which also goes into Grand Central. These include Pleasantville, Chappaqua, Mount Kisco, Bedford Hills, and Katonah. They are all very leafy, have good school systems, and are within the commuter belt. Not on the Sound though, and I know you did say you would like a beach!

In CT, you might also want to consider New Canaan -- further inland from Greenwich and on a branch line, making the commute about 20 minutes longer, but a lovely town.