CaliforniaBride

as British House of Lords rules torture

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/13364055.htm

"Speaking of English national pride in its common-law rejection centuries ago of torture as a means to an end, Lord Hoffman brought his argument forward to the current era. “In our own century,” he wrote, “many people in the United States, heirs to that common-law tradition, have felt their country dishonored by its use of torture outside the jurisdiction and its practice of extra-legal rendition of suspects to countries where they would be tortured.”

CarlM

I think you'll find that America categorically states that "it does not torture its captives".

so thats nice.

CaliforniaBride

LOL! "Rice repeated Thursday that Washington “doesn’t expect its employees to engage in (torture) … wherever they are,”"

Does that mean it's an unexpected bonus if they do?

CarlM

I believe that people dont expect their cars to break down either, but that doesnt really mean its not going to happen!

i agree with a recent televison comedian, she remains one of the worlds great Condoleezas!

Patrick

If America doesnt torture people why wont they ratifie the anti torture bill. Like we beleive anything Bush says now...


"The Bush administration pledged yesterday to veto legislation banning the torture of prisoners by US troops after an overwhelming and almost unprecedented revolt by loyalist congressmen.

The mutiny was the latest setback for an administration facing an increasingly independent and bloody-minded legislature. But it also marked a key moment in Congress's campaign to curtail the huge powers it has granted the White House since 2001 in its war against terrorism.

The late-night Senate vote saw the measure forbidding torture passed by 90 to nine, with most Republicans backing the measure. Most senators said the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal and similar allegations at the Guantanamo Bay prison rendered the result a foregone conclusion.

The administration's extraordinary isolation was underlined when the Senate Republican majority leader, Bill Frist, supported the amendment.

The man behind the legislation, Republican Senator John McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner in Vietnam, said the move was backed by American soldiers. His amendment would prohibit the "cruel, inhumane or degrading" treatment of prisoners in the custody of America's defence department.

The vote was one of the largest and best supported congressional revolts during President George W Bush's five years in office and shocked the White House.

"We have put out a Statement of Administration Policy saying that his advisers would recommend that he vetoes it if it contains such language," White House spokesman Scott McClellan warned yesterday.

The administration said Congress was attempting to tie its hands in the war against terrorism."

Chorlton

“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” - Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering, before committing suicide at the Nuremberg Trials

ironporer

One thing I don't understand...torture is already against American law. Now we can argue about what exactly is or is not torture, but the bottom line is it is illegal. What good would another law do?
It's kind'a like moreder...which is illegal- so why does Congress make it more illegal to commit murder with a gun, or commit murder because you hate someone (hate crimes), or because you murder some one in the commission of a crime.

I recall that at the time of the Columbine massacre, the two nutballs who killed all the kids had broken something like 132 crimes, including 75 laws governing purchase or possesion or use of firearms. Following the massacre what was all the talk? We should make it more difficult to get guns. Duhhhhh.... do you think they would have obeyed the new laws after ignoring laws which carry a death sentence for murder?

This is all just Congressional posturing for next year's election, and for 2008. It's easier than actually doing something constructive...which is what we pay them for- I thought.

fatbrit

Seems to be okay if you do it off US soil though, even if you are an agent of the US government and on US-controlled territory. This is the bit that needs to be changed if they don't want the rest of the world to shout shame. If you want to lead, you need to do it by example.

Chorlton

Torture (or not) is pretty low on their priority list. Things are so far out of control, its hard to see where to start anymore. Everything is smoke and mirrors. Its like a bad joke.

fatbrit

Doesn't seem to be low on Congress's list, though. McCain was leading a small rebelion this morning and he seems to have pulled it off.

TouristTrap

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../12/05/1455239

Chorlton

And theres more:
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/inte...?id=2373312005
No torture of terrorist suspects? We can't guarantee it, says Rice

snowbunny

And the discovery of another detention centre in Iraq with obviously tortured prisoners. Hmmm.

Maybe Ms Rice would allow tortured prisoners to sue for monetary damages "just in case" a wee bit of torture occurs?

Manc

and she looks so frigid too.

Dimsie

I think the rest of the world has been shouting "SHAME !" for quite a while.
It's like living in a continually unfolding Chamber of Horrors here just now.
My husband keeps telling me "It wasn't always like this" .