Ozzidoc

Agree

ian-mstm

You can't attend classes on the VWP. You can on a B-2 visa.


Right... you even quoted the actual "appropriate documentation"... so I'm not sure you entirely understood what was written.

Ian

crg

I have to disagree with that statement. The types of courses that someone can attend are no different for a WT vs B-2. You can either do it as a visitor for pleasure or you can't. You either need a student visa or you don't.

The only difference is that the consulate will sometimes print on a visa that a certain course is allowed on the B-2 to indicate that they evaluated the situation and that, in their opinion, the person doesn't need an F-1.

JCraigFong

What is your basis for this assertion?

crg

To clarify, short term language classes that are not for school credit can be taken when they are incidental to the tourist purpose. That falls under the recreational/avocational category.

It's spelled out better in the DOS Foreign Affairs Manual.

9 FAM 41.31 N14.8 Aliens Destined to Avocational or Recreational School
(CT:VISA-752; 06-28-2005)

An alien enrolling in such a school may be classified B-2 if the purpose of
attendance is recreational or avocational. When the nature of a school’s
program is difficult to determine, you should request from DHS the proper
classification of the program and whether approval of Form I-20, Certificate
of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant (F-1) Student Status – for Academic and
Language Students, will be more appropriate.

9 FAM 41.61 N9.2 Short Term Programs
9 FAM 41.61 N9.2-1 B-2 Visa for Visitor Who Will Engage in a Short Course of Study
(CT:VISA-1064; 10-09-2008)

a. Aliens coming primarily for tourism but engaging also in a short course of
study (less than 18 hours per week) are properly classified for B-2 visas.
You should insert the following notation below the visa: "STUDY
INCIDENTAL TO VISIT; Form I-20, Certificate of Eligibility for
Nonimmigrant (F-1) Student Status-for Academic and Language Students
NOT REQUIRED." (See 9 FAM 41.31 N13.6.)

b. An alien enrolling in such a school may be classified B-2 if the purpose of
attendance is recreational or avocational. When the nature of a school's
program is difficult to determine, you should request from DHS the
proper classification of the program and whether approval of Form I-20,
Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant (F-1) Student Status -for
Academic and Language Students, will be more appropriate. (See 9 FAM
41.31 N14.8.)

c. Currently, aliens traveling to the United States to attend seminars or
conferences that are required to earn a degree are not eligible for B visa
classification. In the case of an alien traveling to the United States to
attend seminars and conferences for credit toward a degree, the study is
neither incidental to a tourist visit, avocational, nor recreational.

JCraigFong

I dissent.

I have had numerous clients who have come to the USA to undertake university-level courses for credit who have done so on a B-2 visa. This is the clear, unforced meaning of the highlighted section of subpart (a) above. There has never been a difficulty. In some cases, I have had the client go to a ConGen for the "no I-20 necessary" endorsement.

Here in California, the number of foreign, university-age students who come to take one class for the summer at UCLA, and who are otherwise here to soak up the rays and party on the beach in Santa Mónica is legion.

I acknowledge the apparent conflict with subpart (c); however, in my view, the "seminars and conferences" language is intended to target a different set of concerns. What is telling here is that subpart (c) does not make reference, like subpart (a), to an undifferentiated "short course of study." If subpart (c) is intended to shut out those who are here to take a "short course of study," it should say so. Elementary rules of statutory construction would lead one to conclude that subparts (a) and (c) are referring to separate sets of circumstances.

--J

crg

Maybe they'll clear up the language. Until they do so, I'd seek the visa solely to have someone look into the arrangement prior to beginning travel.

JCraigFong

I agree that this is a prudent way to avoid nasty surprises at a POE.