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Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Old Mar 17th 2016, 4:57 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by nun View Post
FYI folks, I just sent off for a pension forecast. I got my last one 5 years ago under the old rules and as I'll now be retiring under the "New State Pension" I need a new forecast.
New rules come in April 2016 - I figured best wait to order my forecast until after then, in case the computers are ridiculously set up to run the old algorithm right up until the change date. You never know...
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 5:25 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
Maybe they'll grandfather us in. I never got a clear answer as to whether people subject to the 30-year rule were grandfathered in, I think they are, the 35-year rule only applies if you start making contributions after April 5th this year.

Anyway I've just done the math, and under the 30-year rule, my last Class 2 NI payment would be due April 1st, 2018.

Can't make it up!
People who were "fully paid up" at thirty years and who were not yet retired were given the option to pay a further five years (to give them the new 35 required years) even if they didn't qualify to make additional contributions under the usual "six years of arrears" rule.

In short, there is no "granfathering in" of the 30 years of contributions.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 7:33 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Can not help but think the world will be VERY different in 20 plus years.
Yes. And I'd prefer to have control of my own money in 30 years. The current rise in state pension costs in the UK is unsustainable. Overseas pensioners will be prime targets to have their pensions 'pruned' to save money.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 7:44 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by bewildering View Post
Yes. And I'd prefer to have control of my own money in 30 years. The current rise in state pension costs in the UK is unsustainable. Overseas pensioners will be prime targets to have their pensions 'pruned' to save money.
It's just one of a number of investments and income streams I have planned for retirement. Under a doomsday scenario, it's not a bad "insurance policy" and has been dirt-cheap under Class 2 contributions.

That said I held off making voluntary contributions when I was younger so I could be more sure the state pension will be there when I retire.
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Old Mar 24th 2016, 12:39 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by nun View Post
What is this 30 years grandfathering? I've been paying voluntary NI for 32 years now as I was told that I would have to pay 35 years rather than 30 to get a full pension. You'll get something with 30 years of contributions, but it won't be the full pension.

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated
Oh I can't be bothered, read through this and tell me what the answer is: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...d-Feb_2016.pdf



I used to pay into SERPS so I get more, so that means my "starting amount" is presumably a lot higher, yes? Er, so what does that mean.
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Old Mar 24th 2016, 2:53 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
... I used to pay into SERPS so I get more, so that means my "starting amount" is presumably a lot higher, yes? Er, so what does that mean.
I doubt it. If you opted out of SERPS you apparently get less. I suspect that if you paid in to SERPS it just ups you to the par amount.
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Old Apr 7th 2016, 11:55 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
People who were "fully paid up" at thirty years and who were not yet retired were given the option to pay a further five years (to give them the new 35 required years) even if they didn't qualify to make additional contributions under the usual "six years of arrears" rule.

In short, there is no "granfathering in" of the 30 years of contributions.
Don't follow that, why would you make additional payments if you are fully paid up?

And it does appear having paid into SERPS gives me some sort of advantage, what exactly I'm not sure.
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Old Apr 8th 2016, 12:24 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
Don't follow that, why would you make additional payments if you are fully paid up? .....
Because they could shift the goal posts, making you "not fully paid up", which IIRC is exactly what happened to Yorkieabroad - he had been fully paid up at 30 years, then had to pay for five additional years so that he was fully paid up again. AFAIK he is still young enough that before he retires they could move the goal posts again, say to 40 years, and he would have to pony-up again. I heard indirectly of someone else who had apparently been offered the opportunity to pay for additional years when they changed the rules to 35 years, despite have none of the last six years available to make payments in arrears (which is what I was referring to in part of the post of mine that you quoted).
.... And it does appear having paid into SERPS gives me some sort of advantage, what exactly I'm not sure.
From what I read, if you never opted out of SERPS you are in line to potentially get the "new full pension" and that anyone who had for a period of time opted out of SERPS, would get their pension reduced by an amount to reflect each year that they had opted out. .... Which begs the question: might it be worth paying in additional years even after you have reached 35 years (under the current rules) to give you more years during which you were not opted out? I doubt it would be financially sensible, especially with Class 2 abolished for expats, but I would like to see the numbers.

Last edited by Pulaski; Apr 8th 2016 at 12:28 am.
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Old Apr 8th 2016, 2:13 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

This...

Originally Posted by nun View Post
FYI folks, I just sent off for a pension forecast. I got my last one 5 years ago under the old rules and as I'll now be retiring under the "New State Pension" I need a new forecast.
Except my previous one was 8 years ago and I can't find it now!

I wondered about...

Originally Posted by kodokan View Post
New rules come in April 2016 - I figured best wait to order my forecast until after then, in case the computers are ridiculously set up to run the old algorithm right up until the change date. You never know...
But until recently the website suggested not to apply, as things were transitioning. Now that wording has gone and it appears to invite requests from us folks stuck in the middle of the changes. So...waiting to see what arrives and hoping to do any catching up before they do away with Class 2.
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Old Apr 8th 2016, 7:40 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

I'm awaiting the latest bill, I assume it will arrive sometime this month. Will it be at the old rate or the new rate?
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Old Apr 8th 2016, 8:20 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by NatashaB View Post
I'm awaiting the latest bill, I assume it will arrive sometime this month. Will it be at the old rate or the new rate?
Mine came in May, last year.

The Class 2 rate varies slightly every year, but I suspect that you meant "at the Class 3 rate" when you said "at .... the new rate". .... Ckass 3 will apparently be the rate that expats pay from 2018, so 2016 and 2017 will still be at the Class 2 rate if that is what you were approved for previously.
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Old Apr 8th 2016, 8:21 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by NatashaB View Post
I'm awaiting the latest bill, I assume it will arrive sometime this month. Will it be at the old rate or the new rate?
As I mentioned in post 4 in this thread, I received the update for the coming tax year a month ago. Contributions are set at Class 2 rates.
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Old Apr 8th 2016, 11:26 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Given that I've got until 2018, I think it's one of these situation where it's best to let the dust settle and ask them in a few months.

Even the PDF is very vague. There seems to be this habit for the UK govt. to progressively dumb down publications and websites so the dumbest dullard can understand them but in so doing, they lack the necessary detail.

Unlike the IRS, who are constantly pissing out new forms and regulations. One of my relatives was going on about Form 8965 which she now has to file "I spent half an hour finding that bloody exemption code!"

What I like about the tax systems in Canada and the US is that you are compelled to figure out how they work so you know exactly how much tax you're liable for, whereas in the UK they try and hide how much tax you're paying to the maximum extent possible. E.g. including VAT in retail prices. PAYE RTI.
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Old Apr 10th 2016, 7:47 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Yes, I meant the class 3 rate when I said 'the new rate'. Thanks Owen778 and Pulaski
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Old Apr 10th 2016, 7:52 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI abolished. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Goal posts continually shifting. I think it is safe to assume that we cannot trust any of these b***ers.
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