Hellopaul

Pretty much every day I come across something or other that I am sure is completely incomprehensible to anybody, regardless of national origin. Today's gem was:

The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper on September 30, 2010 to expect your package for mailing. This does not indicate receipt by the USPS or the actual mailing date. Delivery status information will be provided if / when available. Information, if available, is updated periodically throughout the day. Please check again later.

It was the result of a US Postal service tracking thing - what the hell is "The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper on September 30, 2010 to expect your package for mailing" supposed to mean??

Don't get me started on tax forms. Here's a line from one of the forms (there are far, far worse questions):

If your total income will be less than $61,000 ($90,000 if married), enter “2” for each eligible child; then less “1” if you have three or more eligible children.

WTF is that supposed to mean? then less “1” ??? Are there any Americans reading this who can confirm that these forms were created by dyslexic morons? Or can you actually understand this langauge?

snowbunny

Yeah, I'm American.

The post office thing means that the sender generated pre-paid postage online or with a meter - but the post office hasn't scanned your shipment yet, so cannot tell you where it is or indeed if it's been posted yet.

Less means to subtract.

I translate English to English every day and had to translate a flourishy message by a British colleague to a Dutch colleague. When I finished, my Dutch colleague said, "Why the hell didn't he just say *that*?"

I said, "Because he's British, darling."

Hellopaul

Yeah, and so many times when American friends translate bizarre American stuff to me, I say "why didn't they just say that!". There seems to be a real need for an equivalent of a Plain English Campaign here...maybe there is one, I've just never seen their seal of approval because there's very little to approve! Maybe it's all along the same lines as ludicrous job titles such as Vision Clearance Executive (window cleaner) and one I actually saw in all seriousness - "Director of First Impressions" (receptionist at a car dealer)! The theory being that by using unnecessarily complex words fools the reader into thinnking they (the reader) are stupid and the Knowledge Navigator (teacher) is so very very clever.

md95065

I love the bit where the tax forms say things like "combine the numbers on lines 5a, 11 and 17" - wtf is "combine" supposed mean in this context? If they want you to add the numbers why don't they just say so?

snowbunny

It reads like a kitchen recipe rather than a form.

discoviking

I don't know, being a non-brit I could make similar comments about british english.....

For example, my car can not travel through the air even though it has 'wings'. A bonnet to me is something you wear at easter. I am still trying to figure out what you brits mean when you call someone an Anorak (I know it is a piece of clothing, in fact we use the same word in Norwegian), and I suspect that a 'piss-up' is not the same as a 'pissing contest'

In all fairness, I fully agree that there are american sayings that can be confusing to outsiders, too. For example, I recall some of my indian colleagues being somewhat confused about the term 'ballpark estimate' and what on earth that had to do with cricket a while back.....

And here is a quiz for you: What does the Canadian term "Two loonies make a twoonie' refer to?

snowbunny

Two one dollar coins = one two dollar coin.

But then again I'm a fluent translator.

S Folinsky

You title line is misleading. You are asking about the dialect of "bureaucratese" of the English language.

However, it is an Americanism to describe much of bureaucratese as being "boilerplate" language -- your two examples are of that variety.

You don't really give context for the first one, but I presume that you ordered something on-line and they gave you a Postal Service tracking number. It strikes me that USPS is telling you that you have a valid tracking number but the USPS has yet to receive physically scan the item into their system.

On the tax form, that one is easy:

One child, enter two
Two children, enter four
Three children, enter five
Each additional child, add two

The example you give is actually pretty easy.

S Folinsky

True enough -- of course, neither "combine" or "add" really say that you are to enter the "sum" in the box.

BTW, they have an interesting way of testing out instructions -- you'd be amazed how many different ways different people can screw up instructions.

Rete

Sorry that this has upset you so very much. It is the US and we have our own way of speaking and writing the English language. Brits have their own.

We feel much the same about your useage of the English language, particularly your need to nickname everything from a simple word like sandwich to sarnie. My British friends know to explain some phrases to me because I look at them so quizacially.

It is a difference. If you wish to live and work in the US guess you are stuck with having to translate our language

neil

...and a hood is something you wear to keep you warm or to keep the rain off your head.

Someone once said to me, "but a bonnet is something you wear on your head", my reply "what's a hood then?".

candy wy.

I thought English was our language

S Folinsky

The parallel development of technology in the 19th & 20th century often lead to differing terms.

A fairly good, but not always accurate wikipedia article can be found here.

BTW, I do not know the use "wing" on UK automobiles -- I do remember the existence "vent wings." A Type 1 VW Beetle not only had vent wings, but it also had separate fenders and running boards.

On you last item -- that is Canadian slang. The Canadian one dollar coin has an image of a lake loon thereon -- hence the use of "loonie." When the two dollar coin came out, it was a "toonie." BTW, I understand that the word "buck" for the dollar originated in Canada.

When it comes to US bills, I am amused at the phrase "dead presidents" as a descriptive term: Washington [$ 1], Jefferson [$ 2], Lincoln [$ 5], Jackson [$ 20] and Grant [$ 50] are properly "dead presidents" -- but Hamilton [$ 10] and Franklin [$ 100] are not.

ian-mstm

I hate the use of "uni" and "Cali". Why does every flippin' thing in the UK need to end in a vowel? Bloody lazy of them if you ask me... can't be arsed to speak properly and finish their words!

... and SatNav for GPS... bloody idiots!

Ian

S Folinsky

Indians play baseball, both on and off the reservation -- what's that got to do with the English game of cricket. Of course, there is that American slang term "off the reservation" which originated with government mistreatment of Indians.

But then, there is the simmering controversy over the use of indian references in the naming of sports teams. Stanford Junior University changed from the "Indians" to the "Cardinal." [BTW, no 's']. However, the professional teams of the Cleveland Indians and the Washington Redskins have refused to change. I understand that the Seminole nation approves of use of their name by Florida State University because they were never defeated by the United States and their peace treaty was not one-sided.

However, in general, it is well known that sports metaphors from Baseball [e.g. "ballpark figure"] and American Football do not carry over at all. "Field of Dreams" is considered one of the most wonderful movies filmed in the US, but it did no do well in non-US sales -- there are always cultural differences.

BTW, "Cali" bothers me. UC Berkeley is called "Cal." However, University High School in LA has always been called "Uni" and Hamilton High School as "Hami." John H. Francis Polytechnic High School has always been called "Poly" and nobody knows who the hell John H. Francis was. [BTW, the team name for Poly is, you've got it -- Parrots.]