cinnabar

Some distant relatives of mine emigrated to Canada in the 1970s. First week there, a neighbour reported them to whoever you report such things to, for having a washing line in the back garden. "Nasty Brits, with their nasty laundry".

It's one of the things I've noticed as a relatively new arrival here, how much people seem to love grassing on other people over stupid little stuff

AdobePinon

Got to admit, I have a hard time believing your friend, DollyLlama. Cops don't take the time to track someone down for an alleged traffic offense. In NM you'd be pretty much guaranteed a dismissal if the cop was not the primary witness, so if she is telling the truth she should fight it.

BritGuyTN

So shes not sure she ran a red light?

She must of been paying a lot of attention then, in the midst of her choccy milkshake and whopper with cheese

I am the first person who when the light turns amber to nail it, but my car means I can guarantee that it will be VERY marginal

not blatant like I would thought it would be if a member of the public called in

does the area your friend live in have stop light cameras?

RoadWarriorFromLP

Traffic laws vary from state to state, so this depends in part upon where this occurred.

If the ticket is considered a criminal (as opposed to a civil) matter, which it usually is, then a defendant has a constitutional right to confront his accusers. If the cop didn't see the alleged offense, then the cop can't be a witness as to whether the event occurred or not -- he can testify that he took the report, etc., but he can't claim that he actually saw it take place -- and the person(s) who allegedly saw the incident should be subpoenaed and subject to cross examination in court. If the person who allegedly saw the event in question doesn't present testimony, then the prosecution doesn't have much of a case because the whole thing is based upon hearsay, which doesn't provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

If the ticket is a civil matter (which is sometimes the case in some states in certain instances), then the burden of proof is weaker, a matter of "preponderance of the evidence". But again, tickets are usually criminal matters, so the higher standard applies.

Overall, if the goal is to fight the ticket, the most effective way to go about it is to learn the technical aspects of the state and local laws in effect that can be used to toss out the ticket, rather than turn the matter into a he-said/she-said argument that is much harder to prove. With a bit of preparation, my guess is that this is going to be pretty easy to get dismissed if the witness doesn't appear in court.

AdobePinon

I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that the officer is unlikely to have sufficient probable cause to make a stop on the basis of hearsay from a member of the public who is not trained in law enforcement.

Wildandcrazy0525

Contest it, their word against your friends. for them to be found guilty, they would have to prove that the light was run on red beyond reasonable doubt, and that they were even that the intersection question at the time.

Possible defenses

There is high probability that the person that reported the incident, if they ever did get the tag number may have written it down wrong as the only direction that they could have possibly gotten it was if they were sitting facing the oncoming vehicle and sat stationary and doing nothing else but concentrating on the car approaching on the other side of the road, in which case if they were concentrating on the tag that much, then it's highly possible that the light may have already turned green again when the car went through the light as the eye's cannot accuratly focus on something that is down real low and something that is real high with respect to a driver sitting in a car at a set of lights at the same time.

2. In order for them to have contacted the cops and report your friend, one of 2 things must have happened, either they wrote the tag down on paper or they remembered it and called the cops on their cell phone.

If they wrote it down, then how the hell can they say that they were driving sefely and concentrating on the road if they are fumbling to find something to write on, then have to find a pen that works, cause I bet that the first one that they grabbed hold of while leaning over looking in the glove compartment with one foot on the steering wheel, one hand holding the piece of paper so it didn't drop into the foot well thus stopping it from getting tangled in the acceerator and brake pedal and causing a major wreck on the road didn't work, and the 2nd one that did work eventually after having to probably ripping a hole in the piece of paper from scribbling so much just to get it to work, was stuck in the crack between the seat cushion and the seat back on the back seat, right behind the drivers seat, thus involving even more driving with one foot on the steering wheel, the other foot on the gas pedal, and the eye's that they had transplanted at birth into their ass steadily looking at the road ahead! Of which only would have caused another wreck cause of all the other motorists mesmorised by an ass with eye's and a pair of glasses to boot! (do you really think they would be able to see properly after being sat on all day!)

OR....

they called the cops, on no less than on their cell phone while driving down the road, tryiing to remember the tag number, make and model of the car and a full description of the other driver down to the mole that they have on their ass and the number of hairs that they have up their left nostril! Which we all know is the cause of at least 50% of all accidents of people driving and not paying attention cause they are talking on their cell phone while driving! And how do you think that's going to look in court!

Now we get to the cop..... Just ask him that if someone came running up to him and told him that the doughnut shop had run out of doughnuts, would he go running out and drive like a maniac down the street based on what he was told, or would he be best served pulling the ass watching the road while the asses owner tries to find a pen to write some kind of sh** down on a piece of paper about the person that was probably gawping at the ass that was driving the car over and giving them a $185 ticket for being a danger to other motorisits!

I ain't no lawyer, but I gotta see the faces of the jury when they are told all that LOL

RoadWarriorFromLP

For one, many states do not make jury trials available for minor traffic matters. Many states classify such offenses as "infractions", which includes waiving the right to counsel or trial by jury.

For another, elaborate arguments often won't fly in traffic court. Judges particularly despise it when non-lawyers play Perry Mason in their courtrooms with melodramatic cross examination, and will be quick to use their technical knowledge of the law and bully pulpit to prevent Joe Sixpack from indulging in it. A faux lawyer can do it on TV, but try doing it with a speeding ticket and you're more likely to get some pedantic Judge Judy wannabe shouting you down in a hurry.

Again, technical defenses are often best, assuming you have one. Even a judge with a prosecutorial orientation will often have to accept a good technical defense, i.e. the failure of the prosecution to call the key witness.

scrubbedexpat099

I witnessed this when my wife got done for speeding, all very jocular but no way the Judge would have taken any crap. But that included the prosecution.

yorkshire_lass

This is rediculous! If your friend did nothing wrong and is 100% sure of that, and the police saw nothing then how come they are charging her? I can't believe any law would take the word of a member of pubic who has no proof and actually impose a fine!!

If your friend is being totally honest about this they she/he should refuse the fine, who cares how much time it takes them to prove otherwise? and what proof is there? If nothing wrong was done there is NO proof!!

People should not plead guilty to something like this, if they are innocent, we should all stand up for what is right and if your friend did nothing wrong why should she/he pay a cent?

Does your friend know who the accuser is? Maybe it is a person they know such a neighbor who has a grudge?
This is really rediculous, if he/she feels they have to pay up for doing nothing wrong then we...... all of us...... could put in this situation by anyone who had an axe to grind. I find it hard to believe the police would push this without any proof that it isn't just a malicious claim.

Rete

That is only if proven guilty. Find out what the procedure is in your traffic court. Here in New York State, if you are stopped and ticketed, you can plead not guilty, go to traffic court and if the officer is not present and there is no radar result showing a speeding infraction, the ticket is dismissed. I've had a ticket dismissed for going through a yellow light when the officer didn't show up at court.

Rete

Or perhaps she doesn't realize that her manner of changing lanes, not signalling for a turn, erratic breaking habits, doing 40 in a 30 mile speed zone or over the speed posted when in a school area, or passing a school bus when it is stopped to pick up or discharge children, is careless driving. She might well think that it is the proper way to drive.

Rete

Now your assertions are wild and crazy. You can use a cell phone if it is not hand held and you need not have been fumbling for a pen and paper while driving but have pulled over to the curb and stopped and written it down and/or been behind the car at a red light.

franc11s

I'd still love to know what her friend says about the rules for red-lights.

Does she think it's OK to cross as long as it's amber BEFORE she hits the line (like most people) or does she think she otherwise? being on the intersection when it's red is illegal.

DollyLlama

When i asked my friend if she was sure she didn't run a red light she said "No" she didn't. (not "no" she wasn't sure.....)
I'm going with her next Wednesday, she is going to plead not guilty.
Then will see what happens. I have been in the car with her as a passenger and she is a very good driver.
The police officer said he had to give her a ticket because of the call from the other driver.
There was no camera at the stop light in question.

dan_alford

It all depends on the witness. If it was someone who your friend cut up or did something to cause him road rage he may show up. If it was a busybody who just reported it then they probably wont show up. Your friend needs to think hard about if they pissed any drivers off that day.