gradboy

Hey there,

I enjoy reading this forum a whole lot, good advice overflows here! Maybe I can partake...

I've just finished my 1st year in a phd programme at Duke Uni, and I live in Chapel Hill (my degree will probably take 6 years), and I'm back in the UK for the summer. I grew up in a small town in Wales, but for undergrad I moved to Oxford - a decent sized city, only a short hop from London. After undergrad I spent a year in Tokyo, and found it to be an urban paradise.

The thing is - I'm bored in Chapel Hill. It's very ... pleasant, and the people are very nice. But I do get tired of the nearest real city (DC) being an expensive 4 hour drive away. Every time I've visited a real city since I've moved to Chapel Hill (including DC, Seattle, Paris, London and Manchester) I get a "I wish I lived here" vibe pretty constantly. I don't think this is a "grass is greener" thing, and I have a few specific but minor complaints: I dislike being one of a few foreigners, Chapel Hill is unaccountably smug, the transport is - in general - not so good if you don't drive, but nothing big and specific. Chapel Hill would be a great place to settle down with kids, but I'm not sure I like it as a twenty-something singleton.

Duke is very good for my discipline, but there are some equally good grad schools in or near big cities (notably boston and new york)... trouble is, it would probably mean starting phd again from scratch (I'd apply this year and leave after 2 years at Duke). Also approaching current people at Duke for references might be a bit touchy, though I'm sure it'd be fine. And of course if I did go through with it and got rejected at other places (more than possible, probably very likely) ... awkward. Another option would be to return to the UK to finish my phd, which - thanks to different educational setups - wouldn't mean starting from scratch. But I really do like living in the US, just not the small town part of it!

Don't know what in particular I'm asking here, just trying to clarify my thoughts. Am I in culture shock, finding the grass greener, or should I really think about moving, with the costs that entails?

gradboy

elfman

I think it helps if you're into basketball

gradboy

No doubt! But sadly not true of me. I also don't like indie music...

gradboy

elfman

me neither. But my FIL is a UNC graduate and I've felt duty bound to watch rather a lot of college basketball with him in recent years - especially since I've made him watch a lot of (real) football (and to give him credit, he's got pretty into it). His brother is a season ticket holder for Duke basketball, and it does seem to rather dominate the culture down there.

Some of my wife's best friends live in Chapel Hill and she'd love to move there. We'll see.

penguinsix

Is there any chance of doing a few of your years of doctoral work at other institutions? Some schools are partnered with other schools and allow coursework to be done at the other. Duke is a member of the ACC which would include University of Maryland (next to DC), and often times schools in the same athletic conference (ACC) will have academic exchange opportunities as well.

NC Penguin

I find it somewhat odd that you live in Chapel Hill and study in Durham. Durham and Chapel Hill have somewhat different vibes.

Chapel Hill has oodles of stuff to do and I would be doing it all if I lived there. For example, there's live music venues (for rock, pop, folk, classical, and more genres), a thriving restaurant and bar scene and for the more intellectual, the planetarium, arboretum and theater.

I don't know if you've been living with your eyes closed but in Chapel Hill, there's plenty of foreigners, many of whom are non-native English speakers, ironically drawn to the area because of the excellent local universities.

Duke has many student societies, even grad level ones, for many interests. Have you not searched the Duke website for clubs and societies that fit your interests?

I find your post slightly amusing 'cos I knew a Brit who started off in the UK as post-doc at Duke and is now doing the same (I think) at UNC. He's had a blast since he arrived in the US as a singleton just like yourself. He got married to an American lady a couple of years back.

If I'm reading into your post correctly, you don't drive. If that's the case, you need to get a license and get yourself a secondhand car. That'll open many doors and give you more freedom to investigate Chapel Hill and its environs.

BTW, I think you got it all wrong. It's Duke that's smug. I know this for a fact. Chapel Hill is home to a public university whereas Duke is private.

NC Penguin

... but I've found that as a foreigner, it's quite acceptable not to be into basketball.

gradboy

Since Chapel Hill and Durham bleed into one another, it's more than possible to live in one and study in the other. I take the Robertson express bus between the universities, CH is a much nicer place to live than Durham. Many Duke grad students live here and commute. That you find this odd tells me you may not know what you're talking about...

The planetarium is nice... once. Hardly intellectual. As for the theatre, well it's hardly Shakespeare's globe but yes a fun night out.
There are some nice restaurants but I don't know if I'd describe it as 'thriving' - I've been to more or less every good/interesting restaurant in the area.
My musical tastes run towards electronica and classical, neither of which is especially well catered for in the Triangle, but are in most big towns.

I never said there was nothing good about Chapel Hill so please don't just repeat the propaganda - I simply said I'm more attracted to big cities. Fact is, Chapel Hill has 1/10 of the stuff going on in somewhere like San Francisco or Boston.

Please don't talk to me like I'm an idiot. Compared to British (or American) towns of any size, there is a minimal number of foreigners in Chapel Hill, especially doing the more stereotypical triangle stuff. Go to Weaver Street, local 501 or the Farmer's Market ... white americans as far as the eye can see. Now I like white americans, but let's not pretend that Chapel Hill is some kind of beacon of diversity. Even in terms of accent-comments, foreigners really stand out here.

Sigh, yes there are many clubs and societies at all universities. I miss the dynamism of a big city. How does one fact relate to the other?

Well good for him. Does his experience invalidate my own?

I do drive, but I don't own a car. US insurance companies rape foreigners on premiums (like, several thousand bucks for the first year). But I rent cars occasionally and have explored a reasonable amount of NC.

Duke University is a bit smug, yes. Chapel Hill is more so, I think, partly because it's a public university. It's full of undergrad kids from rural NC for whome Chapel Hill is by far the coolest place they've ever lived. The town exudes a certain unjustified "we're hip, we're happening" smugness, which is even showing through in your post, when you assume that my reluctance to stay here must be due to some elementary error.

gradboy

NC Penguin

Yes, I've seen the Robertson bus tootlling on 15-501 from time to time. Handy, isn't it?

I'd put money down that many more Duke students, both undergrads, grads and medical residents live in Durham and commute to Duke. Generally speaking, it's cheaper to live in Durham.

May I ask which parts of Durham you've checked out?


Now I know you're taking the piss. I've lived in the Triangle since 2002 and since I moved here, there's been an explosion of restaurants to cater for all tastes and budgets. Have you dined at either Piedmont and Rue Cler in downtown Durham? I'd love to hear your opinion on either place.

Another sign that you're taking the piss. Not enough classical?

Here's a list of music venues in the Triangle.

So many are restaurants that offer live music but some are standalone music venues. I even got exposed to the NC Symphony Orchestra last autumn when they performed with Elvis Costello.


... and you failed to check that Chapel Hill is not a big city (it's not even a city. It's a town. Please check the town website)? You say you're a PhD, eh? It doesn't take a genius to work out that Chapel Hill and the other two Triangle cities are not going to be remotely like San Francisco or Boston.


If you get the impression that I'm treating you like an idiot, that's 'cos you're coming across as one. It would be good to get things in perspective at this point 'cos you don't seem to convey that in your posts. NC is the size of England but with the approximate population of London.

I will tell you this for free, Chapel Hill isn't as racially diverse as Durham... and Weaver St. Co-op isn't exactly a regular grocery store. If you shop at regular grocery stores like Kroger or even Harris Teeter, you'll find a more representative mix of residents.

No, but it's an interesting comparison IMO.


When I first arrived in NC, I didn't drive for nine months. In that time, I rode the buses. It wasn't convenient and it was very time consuming. Towns and cities within NC are sprawling and it's just not possible to enjoy life without owning and driving a car.

Newsflash: the high auto insurance rates you describe do not discriminate against foreigners. These extremely high rates apply to newly minted teenage drivers as well as people like you an me. In NC it's called an "inexperienced driver" surcharge and applies for the first three years.

I wouldn't begrudge kids from rural parts of NC their contentedness studying in a nationally renowned public university. It's an achievement and I'd be happy for them. Maybe you don't remember your elation when you were an undergrad.

Anthony919

I was in a similar situation when I arrived in the USA, and was quoted $2400 for 6 months insurance, flipping LIABILITY ONLY.
This is because the USA doesn't recognize someone's driving record from another country (strange as those countries DO exist and they are modern comparable regimes) and so they treated me like a 16 year old getting their first car - high risk.

This is one example of the USA behaving as if they are the only country on this planet - another is the World Series.

In the end, I found an insurance agent who deals with Progressive and through my USC wife, they were able to get me a huge saving on the above amount.
I am aware that they took my long driving history into account (I also gave them a no claims bonus certificate as proof of my recent driving history) but to what extent it influenced the lowering of the premium, I don't know and neither do I know whether this will work with you being alone and without a USC wife.
Perhaps you can give them a try and see?

By the way, I am now very tired of the Gieco adverts. I haven't undergone the lengthy and anxious immigration process and come all this flipping way, only to be faced with a stupid cockney-speaking gecko every time I turn on the TV.

People at work are always telling me how much they like "that British accent" that he has

Anthony919

To be honest, we're thinking of moving ALREADY for similar reasons to yours, but the difference is that we only came to NC as a place to start and then go from there.
We had no illusions or ideas about the city (Raleigh) being anything like a big urban city (even Charlotte is bigger) but we had to start somewhere and the cost of living, climate, space and low crime were attractive elements for us.

Where we will end up is unclear, but it will be determined by my wife's employment first and foremost.

I have only visited Chapel Hill once and went to the town's museum, which is about the size of a Micky Dees - its size was quite surprising to me.
I think the question to ask yourself is will your educational achievements be worth the boredom and suffering of a teeny town, until you get them, in CH?

If you can transfer to another university without loss of time & money already invested, I would go. Boston seems nice.

NC Penguin

I suspect the main reason that the US does not recognize British driving insurance histories is the fundamental difference between the UK driving on the left and the US on the right.

That's a whole other discussion, isn't it?

You're exhibiting many familiar characteristics of culture shock. Been there, done that myself.

NC Penguin

From what the OP has written, it would appear that the reason why he is unhappy in CH is that he doesn't drive a car. Once he accepts this lifestyle limitation, he will understand why he unhappy. I know I was unhappy when I was restricted to riding public transport in NC. Things improved most significantly when I learned to drive followed by getting a job followed by the purchase of a second car.

If the OP won't spend money/can't afford a car, I really wonder if he could afford to live in a big city such as Boston that has a higher cost of living. Granted, he may be able to use public transport but after the basic costs (housing, utilities bills, taxes and food), he may not be able to afford the big city leisure activities he misses because they will be expensive too.

Sue

Gradboy, NC isn't everyone's cup of tea. We live in Charlotte and even though it's a large sprawling city it can be pretty boring, especially if you are young and single. Its pretty hard to get out and about as everything is so spread out and you need a car to get anywhere. I have never been to Chapel Hill so can't comment on it but I'd imagine that it's probably not as 'happening' as you like. I suppose if you've come all the way to America for your PHD it wasn't just for the educational experience but also the cultural one. In which case you shouldn't waste your time in a place you are not enjoying the experience.

dbj1000

Absolutely! Gotta agree with Sue on this one.

Funny to watch NC Penguin get all defensive of NC though! Every point made about how wonderful it is makes it sound worse. At least you've convinced me it's probably not worth a visit, NC!