Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

I can't and wouldn't consider myself knowledgeable enough to comment intelligently on what the Thatcher years and the UK economy were like since I wasn't there, or even broader based on the mainland of Europe.


I did however, live here as an adult during both the whole Chrysler crisis and Viet Nam as well..........

Interesting.

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

Chinese Curse.....

May you live in interesting times!

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

I know that one too..........;)

and we do don't we?

My question is who in China did I piss off???

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

I am probably opposed to the bailout in principle but I find it funny that these 3 car makers have to go and beg before the Senate for $25b, after Wall St has taken the US tax payer for $4.28t so far this year.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27719011

The $700b bailout was in fact a $850b bailout so let's get that right for a start. The Fed has been issuing hundreds of billions of treasury bills notes and bonds on a regular basis this year over and above what it normally does -this $850b is only a small part of the real bailout.

What is more the Fed refuses to disclose who receives bailout money and what toxic securities they have accepted in exchange -so much for Barney Franks and President Paulson promising transparency. There is even serious talk that the Fed has been speculating in the futures market over the last few weeks. Now that would be great use of tax payers money.

So eventually I get to my point -why make such a drama about handing over a measly $25b to keep the car makers in business unless it is to distract from the Wall St bailout?

$4.28t and counting...

End the Fed. Stop Bernanke and Paulson from pissing away our future. As for the Senate financial committee that sits idly by, don't get me started...

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

Trouble is $25,000,000,000 here, $25,000,000,000 there.

Soon we are talking real money

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

Methinks you got ahead of yourself - no bailout/loans for some time. Apparently that 'private jet' story I mentioned yesterday was a huge PR disaster for them, huge popular reaction (CNN, and probably lots of networks, are now using feedback via the web on their shows) ... democracy at work :)

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

I'm sure most big companies (and even some small ones) have private jets. If they have them, may as well use them I suppose.

I'm sure the justification is "time is money" - they don't want to waste the time of highly paid executives sitting in airports.

Are there many ways big corporations *might* save money? Sure there are. Will they do all of them? Of course not.

It does seem silly to me for people to sieze on something like the plane flights, which are really entirely insignificant in the big picture.

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

Silly or not, it's PR kiddo and right now is not the time to be advertising the fact that you are coming hat in hand to ask for help when you are still sporting symbols of noblesse oblige......... I'm not making a judgement call, I am speaking how Joe the Plumber et al may view this.

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

I know that's how many view it - I just think it's a shame, because it really isn't what matters. And I think then, it distracts from what does matter.

And you know - I'm sure those execs never gave it a thought - they just continued doing what they usually do. Which, imo, is probably correct enough.

But I agree, the PR fallout is unfortunate. Hopefully it won't affect the outcome.

I suppose I'm in favor of helping the companies - enough things are failing, I don't think we need the fallout from them failing.

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

So does this come with strings, ie y'all better be making better cars that are affordable and green? Or do we just hand over the money?
When the government actually has bailed industries in the past-airlines and railroad (NOT a loan guarantee as in Chrysler's case) have they straightened up THEIR acts, have they become profitable?

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

That's why their companies are in the shitter. They can't keep 'doing what they always do.' If it's come down to them begging for tax payers money, then they need to take immediate, drastic steps to change the way 'they've always done things.' Companies that can't change, can't survive.

They could have sold that jet, and been able to continue to pay for how many people's pension or healthcare funds? The continued perception, is that these guys have driven their company into the ground, and are not taking the serious measures necessary to stay in business. And because of that, they deserve NONE of my hard-earned taxes.

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

I don't know. I personally don't want a small car - so I hope they still make a varied selection.

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

I don't think the big concern now is how to pay for pensions and funds. The concern is staying in business at all.

I wonder, at the salary they're paid, and what they theoretically could accomplish while at work, if it would really save money for them to spend the day at airports?

I don't think ppl have corporate jets just for fun - the intention is to be somewhat useful I believe.

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

They said the cost of the fuel for such a flight is about $26,000. Probably lots more in landing fees, etc. Spending money on unnecessary items like this suggests there may be other areas they are also spending excessively; 'the tip of the iceberg' kind of thing.

The spokesperson for one of the companies said they fly by private jet for 'security reasons' ... I guess these exec's get mobbed as celebrities everywhere they go ... :) In truth, if they fly with a ton of 'aides and assistants', it may be cheaper to go by jet than by commercial airline, but -symbolism is symbolism.

The average person (who's taxes are being asked for) does not understand the complex financial and business challenges the automakers face, just like they don't understand the challenges the government face; so they latch onto tangible elements ... like a 'bridge to nowhere', and the plight of 'Joe the Plummer' (as another poster mentioned).

Re: "Big Three" bailout ....
 

Toyota et al still make a varied range of vehicles and they're not about to change their ways or go bankrupt so I suspect the US makers will increase their ranges to compete not just move from one market to another.