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Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:17 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Partystar
In short, the camera has saved others from him.

The argument about him not re-offending is silly IMO, is that a chance we want to take? If everyone thought like that, then a lot of murderers would be freed on the basis that 'he might not do it again'! Are we only to incarcerate murderers that do it more than once, because that's what makes them an animal, because of how many times they did it?! I could see this reasoning used about someone who killed in self-defence, but that was not the case here.
But did it save the girl..... NO.

It stopped someone re-offending, which is great of course, but it doesn't deter others.

Unless you're very insular protecting your family is more than just putting one child molester behind bars.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:21 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Cameras are just an implement by which you are passing more control of the people to the state.

How far do you believe your civil liberties and freedoms can be eroded to protect you? Many totalitarian regimes have very low crime rates in terms of violence and sexual crimes because everybody is watched all the time. The former Warsaw Pact countries of Eastern Europe, for example, saw these crimes go right through the roof after their revolutions, and they had a police force who was incapable of dealing with it since they'd had no experience of it before.

If you want total protection from these crimes, you will have to give up your freedoms and pass them to the state to control on your behalf. How much power are you willing to pass to the state? Do you trust the state?
No, I don't really trust the states. I just know that when I was living in Banbury, England, I was being watched all the time as there are cameras everywhere. I never felt threatened & I remember an incident where they worked very well...

I saw an old friend in town & stopped to say hello. We were talking for a while, when her boyfriend (a heroin addict) showed up, he had been in Blockbusters which was on the other side of the road. He got a bag of Revels out of his pocket & started eating them. Less than a minute later, a cop car pulled up & arrested him! Louise just sighed & sat there while they took him away. They drove away, I was very confused about what had just happened. She said he had stolen the sweets & then pointed up at the camera on the corner of a nearby building (which I had never noticed before) & said 'I did warn him!'. I was gob-smacked!!!
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:23 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Partystar
No, I don't really trust the states. I just know that when I was living in Banbury, England, I was being watched all the time as there are cameras everywhere. I never felt threatened & I remember an incident where they worked very well...

I saw an old friend in town & stopped to say hello. We were talking for a w.............................. up at the camera on the corner of a nearby building (which I had never noticed before) & said 'I did warn him!'. I was gob-smacked!!!

AGAIN: This is not just about cameras.

Read 1984...
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:24 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by anotherlimey
But did it save the girl..... NO.

It stopped someone re-offending, which is great of course, but it doesn't deter others.

Unless you're very insular protecting your family is more than just putting one child molester behind bars.
I didn't say it was the be all & end all, but it's a start. Anything that will help make this a safer world for everyone is great in my book. There needs to be many forms of protection for us, I think police & cameras are a good start.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:25 pm
  #50  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Partystar
I didn't say it was the be all & end all, but it's a start. Anything that will help make this a safer world for everyone is great in my book. There needs to be many forms of protection for us, I think police & cameras are a good start.
Just wait until they want to put them in public toilets to protect against rapists.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:25 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Elvira
AGAIN: This is not just about cameras.

Read 1984...
I understand that, just giving an example of something I remember with regards to cameras, which is part of this topic.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:26 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

If most crimes are due to poverty and to feed drug habits, then these are desperate people who don't give a toss if there is a camera watching them, so it certainly won't prevent crime.

Anyway stick on a mask and hey presto, I'd like to see the face recognition work on that.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:26 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Although CCTV has been shown to reduce (you will never eliminate) crime in city centers where it is OVERT. Unfortunately the criminal element simply move on to an unprotected area. Or wear baseball hats to cover their faces ala Chavs.

Where it is most useful is in protection of private property and can be used as evidence against your average shoplifter etc.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:27 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Angry White Pyjamas
Although CCTV has been shown to reduce (you will never eliminate) crime in city centers where it is OVERT. Unfortunately the criminal element simply move on to an unprotected area. Or wear baseball hats to cover their faces ala Chavs.

Where it is most useful is in protection of private property and can be used as evidence against your average shoplifter etc.
Question

Speed Camera's, what's their aim?

A) to cut down on speeding traffic / accidents
B) Indirect tax and revenue raiser.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:29 pm
  #55  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Manc
Question

Speed Camera's, what's their aim?

A) to cut down on speeding traffic / accidents
B) Indirect tax and revenue raiser.
I've heard people say it's A, but I feel it's both A & B.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:31 pm
  #56  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Partystar
I've heard people say it's A, but I feel it's both A & B.
It is certainly not A.

more accidents occured due to people slamming on. Indeed it was such a problem that the EU passed a mandate requiring all camera's to be painted flourescent yellow so they could be seen further away.

Speed humps are just as good at slowing people down..........so why the need for camera's if the answer is just A?
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:33 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Angry White Pyjamas
Although CCTV has been shown to reduce (you will never eliminate) crime in city centers where it is OVERT. Unfortunately the criminal element simply move on to an unprotected area. Or wear baseball hats to cover their faces ala Chavs.

Where it is most useful is in protection of private property and can be used as evidence against your average shoplifter etc.

Which is back to the argument we had during the death penalty debates. The only way you can control crime totally is with a totalitarian regime. If you don't choose to live under such a tyranny, the next best thing you can do is to prevent people becoming criminals with measures such as equality of opportunity, reducing poverty and education.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:34 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Manc
Question

Speed Camera's, what's their aim?

A) to cut down on speeding traffic / accidents
B) Indirect tax and revenue raiser.
There aim was probably using B to pay for the cameras to help reduce A.

Unfortunately the Government fell for the salesman's pitch and now we have cameras that have moved speeding drivers to other parts of the road.

I don't believe you can use speed cameras effectively unless you either have them everywhere covering all roads, or you have more mobile cameras that are easily moved.... which is where satellite tracking will come in - which is a whole new can of worms.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:36 pm
  #59  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by fatbrit
The only way you can control crime totally is with a totalitarian regime.
You might be onto something.... I never got robbed in Cuba!

<-- added for Echelon's analysts.
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Old Dec 30th 2005, 4:37 pm
  #60  
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Default Re: Big Brother - cameras ? Etc ?

Originally Posted by Manc
Question

Speed Camera's, what's their aim?

A) to cut down on speeding traffic / accidents
B) Indirect tax and revenue raiser.
Depends.

To a lot of coppers its A. To a lot of authorities its more B. Some police authorities get the revenue from the cameras directly (Notts springs to mind) and they have the most strictly enforced and widest coverage. Other forces pass the revenue onto central govt.

Originally the GATSO was introduced as a means of providing supporting evidence for moving traffic offences. Did you know that in the UK speeding is only 1 of 3 crimes that require corroboration? Whether that be a radar, camera another officer or your own speedo in the police car (and no, it doesnt have to be calibrated beyond normal requirements). The other two crimes, by the way, are perjury and treason.

Unfortunately govt and inparticular the accountants therein cottoned onto the fiscal potential and insisted the police applied it in ways they never wanted to.
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