And you pointed it out quite smugly because your 6 week journey is so typical of getting a green card, isn't it?

BTW, I'm not being 'arsey faced', I'm stating the facts as I see them and I see you being smug and crowing about how easily you got a green card. For some people it is a journey of months or years, not a few weeks and can be very frustrating. I'm happy for you that you got it so quickly and easily and I would imagine it must have been a very simple case but, as you can surely see from all of the questions that get posted here, that isn't usually the case. Sure you can do it without a lawyer if you want to but that isn't really a viable option for most people.

I pointed out a specific factual timeline to counter a massive generalization that you'd be a fool if you tried to do it yourself. A generalization I happen to disagree with.

And yes, as soon as you start calling folk names, you are being arsey-faced

I said you were smug and crowing; those are observations and do not constitute an ad hominem attack. You, on the other hand, called me 'arsey face' a direct, if somewhat childish, insult.

Anyway, as a matter of interest how were you able to elicit a Green Card with such haste? Even an immediate relative application can take several months or more, I've been led to believe.

And I never said you'd be a fool to do it yourself: I merely quoted Abraham Lincoln.

He did say he applied from Singapore.

Most here on BE apply via London, so different timelines, as well as when the application was done.

Thanks for the replies. I think most of the reactions were as I expected.

To answer a few. My reason for posting was that the article seemed to me to be infinitely laced with attorney or third party filer weblinks. So in simple words a not so subtle form of advertising, which I did not object to I just wanted to point out my opinion that I do not think a lawyer/attorney/ third party can do any better than an individual who can fill in their own forms. After all, remember these are government forms that have undergone a full clarity review process. But seriously I have seen them improve over the years.

An attorney is not going to be able to fill in forms any better than you or I. To suggest otherwise is 'peddling' nay preying on peoples insecurities and fears - but then I have probably just defined/ outlined the job description for a vast number of lawyers in the USA. Not all, but tell me when was the last time you truly heard a lawyer say. I'll do that for free.....

To those who think an attorney is advisable. I agree in certain situations but the vast majority of people who are coming here have 'boilerplate' clean records/ backgrounds and do not need a lawyer, certainly they do not need a third party hand holder. In fact 'hand holding' seems to be a growth industry that pervades many walks of life. At this point I feel I need to bang my soapbox and say backbone, confidence, believe in yourself etc.....

Bottom line fill in your own forms.. and good luck.

Hmm. Except this quote applies to those situations where one is in need of representation. Try as they might there is nothing that I have read that states an Attorney is a needed part of the immigration filing process. In fact, it might well be argued that they hinder the process by creating/ attempting to create an environment where it is difficult to do something without an attorney... a time honoured attorney tactic I might add.

I have seen with my own eyes the slime tactics employed by attorneys and third parties.... paying for queue jumping at INS offices etc. It might have taken me 6 hours longer but at least I know my papers were filed legally, without influence and cost a lot less than the thousands of dollars quoted by some weblinks here...

And as to a lawyer being the best person to get legal advice from. Well, how do you know if what you are getting is 'legal advice,' let alone good legal advice?? If you know enough to know the difference between good and bad legal advice, then might I suggest you know enough already to be able to complete your own legal forms for an immigration application!

as the old joke goes what do you call a doctor or lawyer who graduates last in medical/ law school: Answer - Doctor or Lawyer. And since there are many different flavors of officially recognized MD's and JD's in the USA (its a big country out there). Once again I say Caveat Emptor - Buyer beware.

The phrase was one I borrowed from one of my 1st graders friends - it seemed appropriate at the time, given the response I received to a straightforward post.

I applied for my Green card from Singapore on the basis of being married to a USC.

I initally consulted an attorney who wanted to charge me $7000 and told me it would take 6-9 months. I told him we only had a month as our Work Permits were expiring and he said it couldn't be done. After getting the same response from a second attorney, I decided to do it myself and got it thru in the timescale indicated. Yes, there was a lot of legwork, mainly with Scotland Yard on the background checks, but where there's a will, there's a way.....So you'll have to pardon my aversion to attorneys, but in my house they sit in the same cupboard as the chocolate teapots.

chocolate teapots - chocolate fireguards all the same thing.

Thanks and your story illustrates my point so thank you:

Well now I understand your reticence: however, that price is extortion and I don't blame you for not using them. My understanding is that it should cost far, far less than that, especially for such a simple case as yours appears to have been.

BTW; if the best you can some up with is a first grader telling you what to say I'm not so much insulted as amused.

To be honest, if he'd said he could do it in a month for $10k I would probably have said go ahead. At that point, the price was all relative to how desperately we needed to get somewhere, anywhere out of Singapore...but thats a different story.

I am reminded of a (perhaps British) term. "Advocate". This is someone who works on your behalf, either because you cannot or do not want to do it yourself, or just because they can.

Members here on BE are volunteer advocates, offering experience. Lawyers are offering the same service at a price. It is not just form filling, but it could be. Some lawyers specialize in the area, and no doubt have the vicarious experience of numerous clients' situations, and are up to date on the latest changes/trends.

I did not hire a lawyer for immigration, but at times thought it might have made a difference- it probably would not have except the price. In the end you only need a lawyer if the law is not in your favor, but even then they cant change the law.

I went from J1 to N-400 (via K1) without paying a penny for a lawyer. And it was very quick too.

By the way I am being smug. Smug about the fact I didn't waste time or money.

In fact, here's a smug smilie to go along with my post. My smug post.

As a lawyer who used to engage in active immigration practice, some general comments.

Two aphorisms come to mind: "the exception that proves the rule" and "never say never."

I know that I would not have not taken that one month Singapore IV case under current circumstances. However, I can see how it is possible, although highly unlikely that such a case could be completed within a month or six weeks.

Immigration Lawyers often bridle at the comment that the practice is "just filling out forms." Many of the questions on the forms are quite loaded and there are legal land mines planted therein. [I was brought in as "of counsel" on a case recently where the problem is that client handed out leaflets for a particular organization in 1987 -- one that Madeline Albright designated as "terrorist" in 1997. Was that "material support?"]

Many years back I handled an immediate relative adjustment where the naturalized American Citizen had never taken up residence in the US until five years after his naturalization. Being professionally paranoid, I looked into this. The man had married a women serving in the US Air Force, obtained LPR via "DCF," immigrated, immediately naturalized under the provision for LPR's joining their Citizen spouses working overseas for the US Government or US employer and then returned to his home country after 10 days in the US! Perfectly legitimate, but I would have never thought of it.

During my E2 application (which yes, was being handled by an attorney) I hadn't been made aware who would fill in the DS-160, so I completed it myself (but did not submit it). The attorney then told me they would fill it in on my behalf, for me to submit - so they did a new one, which meant I had 2 - mine and theirs.

Guess which one needed correcting?

Some people think they have a "straight forward case", not realizing that there is something in their situation that is not, in fact, straightforward.

Some people do indeed have a "straight forward case" until they shoot themselves in the gonads by answering a critical question inappropriately or by submitting some piece of evidence that wasn't needed but throws sand in the gears. Or, until some immigration or consular officer somewhere along the line does something that mucks everything up.

At least have an up-front consultation with a lawyer to review the situation in detail, and to get advice on how the immigration process works. Then one can make a more informed decision about doing it themself v retaining a lawyer to work with them.

Regards, JEff