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Baby Nationality & Passports?

Baby Nationality & Passports?

Old Nov 2nd 2005, 11:05 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by Celtic_Angel
what hassles? it specifically says that the U.S authorities fully expect their citizens to use only U.S passports
Only to show US passports to US officials. They don't generally care what passport you use overseas.


, they even advise you at the British embassy in Washington to do this.
With respect to the British Embassy, a foreign embassy is not the right place for advice on *American* citizenship issues.

The State Department website is a much better start: http://travel.state.gov
Or http://www.richw.org/dualcit/

Incidentally, people should be aware that US citizenship comes within the jurisdiction of the *State Department* and not the Justice Department or USCIS. USCIS is only responsible for naturalising non-citizens as American, once their citizenship takes affect their status moves to State Department jurisdiction. This is why USCIS officials are often not trained in the intricacies of dual citizensip issues.

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Last edited by JAJ; Nov 2nd 2005 at 11:09 pm.
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Old Nov 2nd 2005, 11:07 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by Celtic_Angel
well the U.S will expect their U.S citizen to have a U.S passport...and if you're only flying home for a visit this shouldn't be a problem at all..I actually have no U.K paperwork on 2 of my kids they are pretty much a U.k citizen by decent..with or without the paperwork

How can you be sure they are British citizens if they have no paperwork?

Some children born outside the UK to British parents do not automatically acquire British citizenship.



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Old Nov 2nd 2005, 11:29 pm
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by JAJ
How can you be sure they are British citizens if they have no paperwork?

Some children born outside the UK to British parents do not automatically acquire British citizenship.
Jeremy
I am a UK citizen (married to a US citizen), with a Green Card living in the US. If I decide to fly to the UK to have my baby and then fly back to the US a month later to carry on life as a permanent resident what paperwork do I need for my baby in the UK and the US to be able to travel and also to have citizenship of both countries?

Thank you.
Marguerite
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Old Nov 2nd 2005, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by Margueriteuk
I am a UK citizen (married to a US citizen), with a Green Card living in the US. If I decide to fly to the UK to have my baby and then fly back to the US a month later to carry on life as a permanent resident what paperwork do I need for my baby in the UK and the US to be able to travel and also to have citizenship of both countries?

Thank you.
Marguerite

Are there reasons other than citizenship why you'd want to give birth in the UK rather than the US?

You've asked a complex question whereby you want a comparison of the UK rules for citizenship by birth vs US citizenship by descent. Or the other way around.

If you want meaningful information on a question like this you need to be specific about:

- whether you're legally married (you say you are)
- is the mother British and the father American, or vice versa?
- how did each parent get citizenship (birth, descent, naturalisation etc)
- how long has the British parent lived in the UK, and the American parent in the US.

And so on.



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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 12:13 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by JAJ
How can you be sure they are British citizens if they have no paperwork?

Some children born outside the UK to British parents do not automatically acquire British citizenship.



Jeremy
they are British by decent...via myself..born and bred in the U.k so it's simple really...it gets more complicated if you as the parent were also born overseas etc (I think) .Thankfully the rules changed in the 80's before then the children could only claim decent if the U.k parent was the dad

my kids can easily get a U.k passport..of course i still have to make sure my paperwork is in order.....i just haven't gotten around to it because it's seemed like a needless expense since we have no immediate travel plans...though I've had the necessary forms for the past year or so
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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 12:18 am
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by JAJ
With respect to the British Embassy, a foreign embassy is not the right place for advice on *American* citizenship issues.
ah yes but they do appreciate that if you have dual citizenship the American's want you to use a U.S passport whereas they are neither here nor there....so for a short visit to Brtain...your best bet would be to use the U.S one
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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 12:36 am
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by Margueriteuk
I am a UK citizen (married to a US citizen), with a Green Card living in the US. If I decide to fly to the UK to have my baby and then fly back to the US a month later to carry on life as a permanent resident what paperwork do I need for my baby in the UK and the US to be able to travel and also to have citizenship of both countries?

Thank you.
Marguerite
are you choosing to do this to be with your family? Or because you have citizenship concerns? I don't think being born in either country will jeopardise your child's claim for dual citizenship....though i do know ...my kids are only British by decent through me and the grandkids will have no claim to British citizenship via their parents...unless stuff changes...anyways that's way into the future..who says they'll even want to live in the U.K *lol*


being born in the U.S automatically makes you a citizen , even if neither parent is American(though you may have to be living here rather than vacationing )...even if born in the U.k your child can still claim U.S citizenship because of your spouse provided you reach this criteria:

http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_web...ts/robirth.htm


this is just stuff I've found out so far....I was a bit pee'd off to discover the kids only have claim through decent but I guess it makes sense and if they want their kids to have U.K citizenship they'll have to figure that out for themselves..
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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 12:43 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by Celtic_Angel
being born in the U.S automatically makes you a citizen , even if neither parent is American(though you may have to be living here rather than vacationing
Makes no difference! Most "undocumented" families have at least one US citizen in their midst. Not that it does them much good, mind you! The only exception to jus soli are those here in diplomatic status.
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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 12:49 am
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Makes no difference!
you know...I didn't think so . I was arguing with hubby about it, he reckons they changed the rules because too many women were coming for day trips half way through labor *lol*
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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 12:51 am
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by Celtic_Angel
you know...I didn't think so . I was arguing with hubby about it, he reckons they changed the rules because too many women were coming for day trips half way through labor *lol*

Would require a Constitutional amendment -- no easy task!
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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 1:12 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by Celtic_Angel
ah yes but they do appreciate that if you have dual citizenship the American's want you to use a U.S passport whereas they are neither here nor there....so for a short visit to Brtain...your best bet would be to use the U.S one


There is no problem using a US passport to show to US officials and a British passport to show in the UK. The British Embassy give the impression that the US has a problem with this - not true.


You *can* enter the UK for a holiday with a US passport if you wish, although it makes things more complex.


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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 1:22 am
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by Celtic_Angel
...my kids are only British by decent through me and the grandkids will have no claim to British citizenship via their parents...unless stuff changes...anyways that's way into the future..
Assuming your children are British citizens to begin with ...

If your children live in the UK for three years, then they can usually register any US born child of their own as British (by descent) if they do so within 12 months of this child's birth - s3(2) British Nationality Act 1981.

Alternatively, if they brought their own US born children to live in the UK, then the children could usually be registered as British under s3(5) of the 1981 Act after three years residence if aged under 18, and hence be British otherwise than by descent.

All explained at:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind...tizenship.html


this is just stuff I've found out so far....I was a bit pee'd off to discover the kids only have claim through decent but I guess it makes sense and if they want their kids to have U.K citizenship they'll have to figure that out for themselves..
It does make sense.

Generally speaking, the children of British migrants born in countries such as the US/Canada/Ireland/Australia/NZ tend to identify much more with their country of birth rather than the United Kingdom.

Grandchildren even more so. Therefore it doesn't make sense to confer British citizenship on the grandchildren unless the children have developed their own ties with the UK by living there, or unless the grandchildren get taken to the UK in childhood, in which case they have a chance to develop their own ties.

British citizenship should be based on close links with the United Kingdom and its territories. A grandchild of a British migrant to the US, born in the US, parents born there, and without any further ties to the UK, is connected first and foremost with the United States and citizenship should reflect this.



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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 2:02 am
  #28  
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by Margueriteuk
I am a UK citizen (married to a US citizen), with a Green Card living in the US. If I decide to fly to the UK to have my baby and then fly back to the US a month later to carry on life as a permanent resident what paperwork do I need for my baby in the UK and the US to be able to travel and also to have citizenship of both countries?

Thank you.
Marguerite

What are you planning to do for medical care to deliver your baby in the UK? You need to be aware that if you are living abroad, you are no longer entitled to use the NHS, other than for true emergencies.

The hospital may or may not care - but they would probably ask where you went for your pre-natal care, so there might be potential problems.

I just wanted to alert you to this, just in case you weren't aware.
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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 2:38 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by JAJ
Assuming your children are British citizens to begin with ...
why do you keep saying that? is there something I should know??
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Old Nov 3rd 2005, 2:38 am
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Default Re: Baby Nationality & Passports?

Originally Posted by Celtic_Angel
they are British by decent...via myself..born and bred in the U.k so it's simple really...it gets more complicated if you as the parent were also born overseas etc (I think) .Thankfully the rules changed in the 80's before then the children could only claim decent if the U.k parent was the dad
The law changed on 1 January 1983 (when the British Nationality Act 1981 came into force).

However the Home Office had actually opened the door on 8 February 1979 when it announced that it would register children born overseas to British mothers as UK citizens provided application was made before the child turned 18.

This was badly publicised and many people missed the deadline. However a law change on 30 April 2003 has reopened the 1979 concession for those born overseas to UK mothers between 8 February 1961 and 31 December 1982. They can now register as British citizens (by descent) if they apply.


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