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Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Old Dec 16th 2014, 1:21 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

One thing about NICs is that you can only pay them up till your retirement age, 65 in my case. US SS there is no age limit, if you are working you keep on paying, I believe?

This means with NICs you can time out if you start the voluntary Class 2 too late. This is what happened with me, I'll be 65 and will only have 29. My fault,for several years I looked at the rules and couldn't figure out whether I was eligible for Class 2, so delayed applying. When I did apply, it was incredibly easy, I paid my six years arrears and pay each year now in April ... but I should have started at least one year earlier!

A word to the wise...
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Old Dec 16th 2014, 2:41 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Hmm, do you have anything to back up your assertion?

Edit: seems to be a minimum of 3 prior years of NI contributions:

Voluntary National Insurance - HMRC’s Best Kept Secret - World of Expats - Expatriate Advice
3 years is what I recall from previous threads on this.
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Old Dec 16th 2014, 6:02 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Hmm, do you have anything to back up your assertion?

Edit: seems to be a minimum of 3 prior years of NI contributions:

Voluntary National Insurance - HMRC’s Best Kept Secret - World of Expats - Expatriate Advice
Both myself and my wife worked only about 5-6 years after graduation. We were eligible for class 3 NICs but as i said i'm writing back to request class 2.

I view the UK pension as a coverage in an unlikely event of a disaster, or the more lightly event that my 401k and retirement savings here are going to fall short. The pension would at least be food on the table.

i suppose it could get means tested in which case you could easily move some money around the family.

Its slightly unfair that despite being allowed to make voluntary contributions as expats we will never get the pension increases once we retire.
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Old Dec 16th 2014, 6:04 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by Uncle_Bob View Post
Its slightly unfair that despite being allowed to make voluntary contributions as expats we will never get the pension increases once we retire.
If you live in the US you will, thanks to the US/UK reciprocal SS agreement.
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Old Dec 16th 2014, 6:11 pm
  #35  
 
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by Uncle_Bob View Post
.... Its slightly unfair that despite being allowed to make voluntary contributions as expats we will never get the pension increases once we retire.
Are you planning on immigrating to Canada, Bob?

Residents of a number of countries get annual increases in their UK state pension, including the whole of the EEA, countries in or near SE Europe (the Balkan countries and Turkey), a bunch of islands banana republics mostly, (such as the Channel Islands, Jamaica, Mauritius, the Philippines) .... and the USA.

Residents of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, and anywhere in Africa all lose out!

Last edited by Pulaski; Dec 16th 2014 at 6:18 pm.
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Old Dec 17th 2014, 12:57 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by Hotscot View Post
Any more info on this?
I'm sure it's on the DWP website, but basically, if you're not required to file a tax return, they're going to invoice people once a year (starting in July). Why they can't just do the DD once a year for £145 I don't know, but still it's better to get invoiced once a year because then you can hopefully pay with a credit card so no more need for a UK bank account.

So make absolutely sure you've got your address up-to-date with the DWP so you don't miss the invoice, seems to be the key point.

Originally Posted by kodokan View Post
Interesting - I'd misunderstood this, but it seems we're sort of both right. Come April 2016, the government will work out a starting amount under the new scheme, based on people's contributions to date. Going forward, they'll then have 4.24 quid added to that amount per qualifying year, until you hit the full pension amount of 148.40.

So for some people, yes, this may be less than 35 years all told - depends how much they've paid so far in SERPs-a-like, I suppose, which would increase the overall amount paid to date.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-changes-4.pdf
I think they've also moved the goal posts as they will only count years from the age of 19 onwards, not sure if that applies retroactively though. But say you started work at 17, you've just lost two years worth of contributions. I'm not sure on that point though.
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Old Dec 17th 2014, 1:00 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by Uncle_Bob View Post
i suppose it could get means tested in which case you could easily move some money around the family.

Its slightly unfair that despite being allowed to make voluntary contributions as expats we will never get the pension increases once we retire.
As Pulaski pointed out, in the US and EEA, you do get the cost of living increases. But anyway, it is already effectively means tested, the basic pension is what you get if you don't qualify for any of the extra doodads. This is the downside of living abroad I suppose.
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Old Dec 17th 2014, 1:03 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Residents of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, and anywhere in Africa all lose out!
I don't know whether they're going to mess with the pension provisions again, but one thing I do know for 100% certain is that HMRC, the IRS, CRA etc. are going to link all their systems as provided for under the tax treaties so if you're thinking of pretending to live in another country to get the cost of living increases - think again, they will know.

Even now when you claim CPP and OAS in Canada, they check with HMRC to see if you qualify for a British pension, says to contact the DWP on the letter that comes from the CPP.
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Old Dec 17th 2014, 1:13 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
One thing about NICs is that you can only pay them up till your retirement age, 65 in my case. US SS there is no age limit, if you are working you keep on paying, I believe?
I thought it was calculated when you hit 62? Or do they recalculate it if you delay claiming it? I mean you can keep on paying but does it alter the calculation? How Social Security Benefits Are Calculated | Bankrate.com
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Old Dec 17th 2014, 2:46 am
  #40  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
I thought it was calculated when you hit 62? Or do they recalculate it if you delay claiming it? I mean you can keep on paying but does it alter the calculation? How Social Security Benefits Are Calculated | Bankrate.com
As far as I know, your SS entitlement is continually recalculated as you age, accrue further credits, etc. Pretty sure that it doesn't stop at 62. They no longer mail out the statements annually, but with an online account you can see your record at any time, although the credits are only reflected on the statement once annually, I believe.
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Old Dec 18th 2014, 4:46 am
  #41  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
I think they've also moved the goal posts as they will only count years from the age of 19 onwards, not sure if that applies retroactively though. But say you started work at 17, you've just lost two years worth of contributions. I'm not sure on that point though.
My existing NI record includes the year I started getting paid at age 17, I'm almost 60 and will be pretty annoyed if they take two years off my record.
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Old Dec 18th 2014, 4:53 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
As far as I know, your SS entitlement is continually recalculated as you age, accrue further credits, etc. Pretty sure that it doesn't stop at 62. They no longer mail out the statements annually, but with an online account you can see your record at any time, although the credits are only reflected on the statement once annually, I believe.
I'm pretty sure that is correct, you continue to accrue credits as long as you continue to work up until full retirement age.

The paper statements are being sent out annually again starting last September

Social Security Paper Statements Return – AARP
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Old Dec 18th 2014, 1:20 pm
  #43  
 
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by durham_lad View Post
My existing NI record includes the year I started getting paid at age 17, I'm almost 60 and will be pretty annoyed if they take two years off my record.
I'd not thought about that, but if they apply that curtailment retroactively then I'll probably lose a year too. I didn't work the whole year I turned 18, but I think it was enough to be credited with a year.
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Old Dec 18th 2014, 1:34 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
I'd not thought about that, but if they apply that curtailment retroactively then I'll probably lose a year too. I didn't work the whole year I turned 18, but I think it was enough to be credited with a year.
Didn't everyone get the years from 16-19 credited? I did; first in 6th form FE college, then uni. I thought everyone did, as they'd either have been working, studying, or claiming a benefit which entitles them to a credit.
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Old Dec 18th 2014, 1:39 pm
  #45  
 
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Default Re: Anyone retiring to the UK on Social security only

Originally Posted by kodokan View Post
Didn't everyone get the years from 16-19 credited? I did; first in 6th form FE college, then uni. I thought everyone did, as they'd either have been working, studying, or claiming a benefit which entitles them to a credit.
Oh, I don't know. Maybe. Maybe that is the sneaky rationale for docking those years, that they were mostly "nominal", not paid for in cash?
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