anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
#16
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Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
thanks for your very informative post..
Of course I realise that much of this is the territory of professional accountants etc. but its good to get some background info.
As for why I want to be a citizen. Well I really don't want to be a citizen but I have just married a US citizen and we are having a baby in a few months. In my line of work (movies) there are only a few places in the world that I can work and the work is getting increasingly global. One country's downturn is another's upturn. If work is slow in London then I always have the option if needs be of returning stateside for a few years to work. of course how this will play out with the family is another matter. Its a very changeable industry and can be highly dependent on factors such as government tax breaks which come and go with the winds. America tends to have a more stable base of work but isnt really where I would choose to bring up my children. So yes its all about hedging my bets
Of course I realise that much of this is the territory of professional accountants etc. but its good to get some background info.
As for why I want to be a citizen. Well I really don't want to be a citizen but I have just married a US citizen and we are having a baby in a few months. In my line of work (movies) there are only a few places in the world that I can work and the work is getting increasingly global. One country's downturn is another's upturn. If work is slow in London then I always have the option if needs be of returning stateside for a few years to work. of course how this will play out with the family is another matter. Its a very changeable industry and can be highly dependent on factors such as government tax breaks which come and go with the winds. America tends to have a more stable base of work but isnt really where I would choose to bring up my children. So yes its all about hedging my bets
Originally Posted by Giantaxe
If you have a rental property in the US you will have to file a US tax return anyway, although obviously this would entail less record keeping than having to file a return that included wage income.
It's at least theoretically possible that you will end up more heavily taxed if you are a US citizen, because that leaves you open to the possibility that some aspect(s) of your worldwide income are taxed more heavily by the US than by the UK (or whatever other country you earn income/interest/capital gains in). Also, do a search on why being a US citizen really hurts you in respect to UK Unit Trusts and some other UK investments as well. However, specifically in regards to wage income it's unlikely, because US federal tax rates tend to be lower than their UK counterparts and you will presumably not owe any state tax (except perhaps in the year you move).
The question I would ask is why you want to become a US citizen if you intend to go back to the UK? Is this a case of hedging your bets if it turns out you subsequently want to come back to live in the US again?
It's at least theoretically possible that you will end up more heavily taxed if you are a US citizen, because that leaves you open to the possibility that some aspect(s) of your worldwide income are taxed more heavily by the US than by the UK (or whatever other country you earn income/interest/capital gains in). Also, do a search on why being a US citizen really hurts you in respect to UK Unit Trusts and some other UK investments as well. However, specifically in regards to wage income it's unlikely, because US federal tax rates tend to be lower than their UK counterparts and you will presumably not owe any state tax (except perhaps in the year you move).
The question I would ask is why you want to become a US citizen if you intend to go back to the UK? Is this a case of hedging your bets if it turns out you subsequently want to come back to live in the US again?
#17
Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Non, je ne regrette rien.
How good do you actually think the IRS are at knowing what you earned outside the US? They find it difficult enough with domestic stuff.
How good do you actually think the IRS are at knowing what you earned outside the US? They find it difficult enough with domestic stuff.
#18
Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Originally Posted by BigDavyG
Not if you leave the country and cease to be a PR which I think is the OP's point.
http://www.bdo.com/about/publication...triate7-05.pdf
Apparently, if you meet certain requirements, even if you give up a green card, you can still be required to file a US tax form (not a 1040, but a 8854) for 10 fricking years!
I'm not sure if you hit that level, but it does give you an idea of the evil reach of the IRS.
By the way, isn't there a 10 year travel ban to the US if you relinquish citizenship? I thought you were not allowed back in the US for 10 years if your give up your citizenship?
#19
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Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Originally Posted by penguinsix
By the way, isn't there a 10 year travel ban to the US if you relinquish citizenship? I thought you were not allowed back in the US for 10 years if your give up your citizenship?
#20
Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Originally Posted by penguinsix
By the way, isn't there a 10 year travel ban to the US if you relinquish citizenship? I thought you were not allowed back in the US for 10 years if your give up your citizenship?
#21
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Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Originally Posted by angelman
thanks for your very informative post..
Of course I realise that much of this is the territory of professional accountants etc. but its good to get some background info.
As for why I want to be a citizen. Well I really don't want to be a citizen but I have just married a US citizen and we are having a baby in a few months. In my line of work (movies) there are only a few places in the world that I can work and the work is getting increasingly global. One country's downturn is another's upturn. If work is slow in London then I always have the option if needs be of returning stateside for a few years to work. of course how this will play out with the family is another matter. Its a very changeable industry and can be highly dependent on factors such as government tax breaks which come and go with the winds. America tends to have a more stable base of work but isnt really where I would choose to bring up my children. So yes its all about hedging my bets
Of course I realise that much of this is the territory of professional accountants etc. but its good to get some background info.
As for why I want to be a citizen. Well I really don't want to be a citizen but I have just married a US citizen and we are having a baby in a few months. In my line of work (movies) there are only a few places in the world that I can work and the work is getting increasingly global. One country's downturn is another's upturn. If work is slow in London then I always have the option if needs be of returning stateside for a few years to work. of course how this will play out with the family is another matter. Its a very changeable industry and can be highly dependent on factors such as government tax breaks which come and go with the winds. America tends to have a more stable base of work but isnt really where I would choose to bring up my children. So yes its all about hedging my bets
#22
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Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Originally Posted by Bob
It's a permanent bar.
#23
Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Originally Posted by Hayley
Huh?? so my son who's dual if he decides he doesn't want the US citizenship he can't ever come back to the US again??
The fact is that renunciation is an extremely complicated process, and if you wish to reenter the US after doing so, you could go through several dozen layers of bureaucratic hell. There are websites that say you can come back (even the DoState) but there are others that say "when hell freezes over". And the taxes and military service obligations (draft registration) will follow you even if you are successful in renunciation.
The best advice I saw was "talk to an immigration attorney" especially if you hope to reenter one day.
p.s. I don't think parents cannot make the renunciation for their minor children--it has to be done by the child themselves when they turn 18.
#24
Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
I wish I had done it and completed everything with it sooner.
plus, just doing it later is a headache.. trying to find or remember the POE and days/months/years involved
you are generally going to pay taxes where you live and receive your income
if you were taxed twice, can't imagine there'd be much left
plus, just doing it later is a headache.. trying to find or remember the POE and days/months/years involved
you are generally going to pay taxes where you live and receive your income
if you were taxed twice, can't imagine there'd be much left
Originally Posted by angelman
has anyone become a citizen and regretted it. I am thinking mainly financially since that is the only real negative I can imagine in being a us citizen. At least with a green card I can just decide to not pay taxes and give up the green card. If I become a citizen I have to pay us taxes for life!
Is the tax ting an actual burden if I were to move back to live and work in the UK say for 10 years. I know the two countries have a tax agreement. Does it only really affect you if you have say property or business interests in the US. Presumably because the UK income tax rate is higher you would never actualyl need to pay tax to the US, just file it each year? Unless you have a lot of cash lying around the world..
Is the tax ting an actual burden if I were to move back to live and work in the UK say for 10 years. I know the two countries have a tax agreement. Does it only really affect you if you have say property or business interests in the US. Presumably because the UK income tax rate is higher you would never actualyl need to pay tax to the US, just file it each year? Unless you have a lot of cash lying around the world..
#26
Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Originally Posted by Hayley
Huh?? so my son who's dual if he decides he doesn't want the US citizenship he can't ever come back to the US again??
#27
Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Originally Posted by JAJ
IRS actually:
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8854/ch01.html
Renouncing US citizenship may cause a problem with Social Security later on. Plus the not-so-small matter of being unable to return to the US or get a US passport should you change your mind later on (many people do).
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8854/ch01.html
Renouncing US citizenship may cause a problem with Social Security later on. Plus the not-so-small matter of being unable to return to the US or get a US passport should you change your mind later on (many people do).
Getting US citizenship has advantages if you are resident in the US, but if you go back to the UK it means that you will have complicated tax returns. Also the big financial issue is that as a US citizen its a very bad idea wrt taxation to own foreign mutual funds and you have to declare any foreign accounts over $10k to the US Treasury.
So if you plan to return to the UK I'd be wary of taking US citizenship as your invetsment options in the UK will be severely limited and your taxes will be complicated
#28
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Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
you briefly mentioned a subject that i have never been clear about. You said that you have to declare any bank accounts with more then $10K in them. Several people I know have this situation including myself. The question being is that a total of all bank accounts or in any one account? I assume the former since otherwise one would just open a bunch of accounts with less than $10K in them
Originally Posted by nun
I agree, but the previous comments about the tax implications of expatriation (giving up US citizenship) are a bit wrong. The rules change about a year ago and if your net worth is less than $2M the IRS assumes that you are NOT giving up US citizenship for tax purposes and you won't have to file for another 10 years like you use to.
Getting US citizenship has advantages if you are resident in the US, but if you go back to the UK it means that you will have complicated tax returns. Also the big financial issue is that as a US citizen its a very bad idea wrt taxation to own foreign mutual funds and you have to declare any foreign accounts over $10k to the US Treasury.
So if you plan to return to the UK I'd be wary of taking US citizenship as your invetsment options in the UK will be severely limited and your taxes will be complicated
Getting US citizenship has advantages if you are resident in the US, but if you go back to the UK it means that you will have complicated tax returns. Also the big financial issue is that as a US citizen its a very bad idea wrt taxation to own foreign mutual funds and you have to declare any foreign accounts over $10k to the US Treasury.
So if you plan to return to the UK I'd be wary of taking US citizenship as your invetsment options in the UK will be severely limited and your taxes will be complicated
#29
Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Originally Posted by angelman
you briefly mentioned a subject that i have never been clear about. You said that you have to declare any bank accounts with more then $10K in them. Several people I know have this situation including myself. The question being is that a total of all bank accounts or in any one account? I assume the former since otherwise one would just open a bunch of accounts with less than $10K in them
I'm really not sure about bank accounts over $10k. The main reporting requirement deals with cash over $10k.
There is a famous court case about a guy who won like $50,000 in Las Vegas. Instead of taking one big payment for $50k, he structured several smaller payments for the purpose of avoiding the $10k cash reporting requirements. The courts found that you are guilty of 'structuring' if you conduct financial transactions, such as coming in with $9,900 instead of $10,000.
Here are some links of people found guilty of structuring:
http://www.northcountrygazette.org/a...006USAGas.html
http://www.irs.gov/compliance/enforc...129118,00.html
http://www.kscourts.org/ca10/cases/1997/07/95-1408.htm
and this, most recently:
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/whi...ing/index.html
Ratzlaf Redux: Intent for Structuring
In Ratzlaf v. U.S., 510 U.S. 65 (1994), the Supreme Court interpreted the "willfully" element for a currency structuring violation under 31 U.S.C. Sec. 5324 to require proof that the defendant knew the structuring was illegal. Congress responded rather promptly to the Court's holding by dropping willfulness from the statute, so that now all the government needs to prove is that the defendant knows that the financial institution is required to file a Currency Transaction Report (CTR) for transactions over $10,000 in cash, and that the defendant intended to avoid having the report filed by structuring the transactions to keep them under $10,000.
#30
Re: anyone regretted becoming a us citizen
Originally Posted by angelman
you briefly mentioned a subject that i have never been clear about. You said that you have to declare any bank accounts with more then $10K in them. Several people I know have this situation including myself. The question being is that a total of all bank accounts or in any one account? I assume the former since otherwise one would just open a bunch of accounts with less than $10K in them
you have to declare them all to the Treasury on a TDF 90-22.1
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf
Penalty for not doing so can be up to $500k or half the value of the accounts! which ever is the greater.
Accounts means everything, banks, investment accounts, pensions, national savings etc.
So becoming a US citizen has serious taxation and financial reporting implications if you ever plan to return to the UK.
If to go to the UK and convince the UK that you are domiciled in the US there are some tax advantages. Still, unless you have family, retirement accounts, investments or SS payments in the US I'd think twice about US citizenship.